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BGinNJ Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 381
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 9:13 am Post subject: Performance Anxiety? |
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What kinds of playing situations create anxiety, "stage fright" for you, and how, if at all, do you remedy it?
For myself, I've found that I'm ok rehearsing with, and performing with a band, or casual sessions that aren't public. But open jam sessions, with all the uncertainties of who's going to play, what, and when, make me nervous. I know it's a traditional part of jazz culture, I wish I had the confidence to enjoy it more. |
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falado Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 946 Location: Eastern NC
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 11:03 am Post subject: |
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Hi, get and read "The Inner Game of Music".
Dave _________________ FA LA DO (Ab: V/ii) MUCS, USN (Ret.)
Stomvi VR (Reeves) with VR II Bell
Bach 239 25A C, Blueprinted
Bach 37, Early Elkhart, Blueprinted
Kanstul Flugel
Getzen 4 valve Pic.
Yamaha D/Eb
Besson Cornet |
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falado Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 946 Location: Eastern NC
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 11:05 am Post subject: |
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Hi, get and read "The Inner Game of Music". It helps me a lot with my students, especially audition preparation.
Dave _________________ FA LA DO (Ab: V/ii) MUCS, USN (Ret.)
Stomvi VR (Reeves) with VR II Bell
Bach 239 25A C, Blueprinted
Bach 37, Early Elkhart, Blueprinted
Kanstul Flugel
Getzen 4 valve Pic.
Yamaha D/Eb
Besson Cornet |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9153 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 11:11 am Post subject: |
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Well, my debut night at a regular jam session, I went around the entire room thanking each person for playing with me. I got some real quizzical looks. I realized later it was just insecurity. With both regular attendance at the jam session, and getting to know the other players, it came familiar and fun. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
Benge 3X Cornet |
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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 737 Location: SE US
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 11:34 am Post subject: |
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I've had a taste of that as well. When I first started playing publicly after 14 years of not playing at all, anxiety was a new first for me. The attack came out of nowhere. For me, it was a psychological road bump, but it didn't take long to fix after I identified/isolated/resolved the problem. I read and employed Don Greene's excellent book, Performance Success and moved on!
Best wishes,
Mike
Addendum: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0_wg1DTT0w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0em8bAV2EA _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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dstpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1289
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 11:54 am Post subject: |
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You might check out the Bulletproof Musician site...Noa Kageyama, Ph.D.
He teaches this at Julliard. |
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dstpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2005 Posts: 1289
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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“Ninety percent of the game is half mental.”
-Yogi Berra |
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stuartissimo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021 Posts: 1038 Location: Europe
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 11:29 pm Post subject: Re: Performance Anxiety? |
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BGinNJ wrote: | What kinds of playing situations create anxiety, "stage fright" for you, and how, if at all, do you remedy it? |
Had those issues for a long time, and while I'd like to tell myself that I've grown, and are now professional enough to handle those situations, in truth they still creep up to me. As a kid, my first note played in a group setting scared me silly, so that the second note was at the next group setting . There have been many times since that I simply couldn't play due to the nerves. Over time though, I grew out of it. Part of the reason was mastering my instrument and growing as an artist. But I suppose what also changed is that I no longer want to deny myself the great experiences of making music. So I plow through whatever insecurities I have, and simply take the risk. Doing so more often makes it easier over time.
BGinNJ wrote: | For myself, I've found that I'm ok rehearsing with, and performing with a band, or casual sessions that aren't public. But open jam sessions, with all the uncertainties of who's going to play, what, and when, make me nervous. I know it's a traditional part of jazz culture, I wish I had the confidence to enjoy it more. |
The uncertainties you mention, and the unfamiliarity with new situations, can be remedied somewhat by participating in more open jam sessions. What helped me was accepting that, due to the nature of improvisation, it will be imperfect, and at times, downright bad. The risks are higher when you don't have the safety net of scores, conductors or planned music...but the rewards when you do get it right, are much higher too. It starts with accepting that a wrong note, or a mediocore solo, isn't the end of the world as we know it (if you really blow it, it might be the end of that night's gig though ). _________________ 1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mpc |
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dbacon Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2022 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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DB
Last edited by dbacon on Sat Jun 18, 2022 6:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Nathan.Sobieralski Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Mar 2006 Posts: 193
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2022 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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Prep is a part of it for sure. We recently had a CSO member here do a masterclass at the university who insisted that perf anxiety is rooted in a lack of prep. I can agree somewhat, but there are other factors like personality type etc. For instance, in an hour from now I will play the Haydn, and though I've played it many times before I still get nervous! I have accepted it as a part of my personality. _________________ Dr. Nathan Sobieralski
www.s-mute.com
Principal Trumpet, Sequoia Symphony
Department of Music (Trumpet)
California State University, Fresno |
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Daniel Barenboim Veteran Member
Joined: 20 May 2011 Posts: 250
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2022 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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When in doubt, block it out!
DB |
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BGinNJ Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 381
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Posted: Sat May 07, 2022 7:16 am Post subject: |
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dstpt wrote: | You might check out the Bulletproof Musician site...Noa Kageyama, Ph.D.
He teaches this at Julliard. |
thanks for this, lots of useful info.
I notice a lot of the comments here (and on that site) are oriented towards classical performance prep. I agree, a structure where there's fewer variables and more predictability is easier, anxiety wise. But it's a whole different world than a jazz jam.
I went to a jam the other night, it was low stress for me. Why? This particular session is about learning, trying new tunes, and several of the few players are relative beginners. It's not high level or competitive. I actually play guitar a lot because they need the rhythm section backup. |
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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 737 Location: SE US
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Posted: Sun May 08, 2022 8:12 am Post subject: |
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dbacon wrote: | The deeper and stronger your fundamentals are the stronger your confidence is. Like taking a nice walk over firm ground. |
+1
Mike _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9153 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sun May 08, 2022 9:16 am Post subject: |
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Well, actually I think this is situational.
Believe me, I am well grounded, yet I went through a period where a case of nerves would come out of nowhere. The difficulty and complexity of the performance had nothing to do with this. It was completely unpredictable. I had to rely on external mans of handling that.
I haven't had a case of nerves for decades since but it was real and was unrelated to my preparedness. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
Benge 3X Cornet |
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Trumpjerele Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Feb 2019 Posts: 188 Location: Spain
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Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 6:54 am Post subject: |
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Being prepared is important, but it won't solve anxiety problems.
After playing the trumpet for over 20 years I think I am competent enough to play a simple C scale...but.... When I see the famous video of Arturo Sandoval in the super bowl final, and I imagine myself in that situation bringing my lips close to the instrument to play a simple C scale. I am not even able to visualize that moment without trembling.
Definitely locking yourself in the room to study will not solve the nerve problems, exposing yourself to playing in public gradually and relativizing successes and failures will be more beneficial. _________________ Notice!!! Amateur musician without formal studies
Trumpet: Yamaha 8310Z
Mouthpiece: the great Yamaha11b4
Sax tenor: Yamaha YTS 23
Mouthpiece: Otto link tone edge |
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stuartissimo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021 Posts: 1038 Location: Europe
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Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 8:18 am Post subject: |
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Trumpjerele wrote: | After playing the trumpet for over 20 years I think I am competent enough to play a simple C scale...but.... When I see the famous video of Arturo Sandoval in the super bowl final, and I imagine myself in that situation bringing my lips close to the instrument to play a simple C scale. I am not even able to visualize that moment without trembling. |
Visualizing isn't the same as the real thing of course, but for some people it can help to imagine stressful moments in the safety of your practice room, especially if you have a vivid imagination. Do you feel those feelings of anxiety lessen if you imagine said scenario more often?
Trumpjerele wrote: | exposing yourself to playing in public gradually and relativizing successes and failures will be more beneficial. |
A few summers ago the weather was nice enough that I figured I'd try playing outside. I found a nice remote spot and though there were few to no people around, some anxiety of being heard still popped up (something about making music in a setting where nobody asks for it). As I did it more often, the feelings became more manageable. Anyway, just taking your bike and pedal for a while to a deserted spot can be a useful first step towards performing for actual people. _________________ 1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mpc |
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astadler Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2014 Posts: 132 Location: Little Rock, AR
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Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 8:40 am Post subject: |
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Feels like it should be mentioned since this thread has gone long enough that for some people, no amount of preparation or breathing or mindfulness exercises can overcome the body’s fight or flight response, and that’s ok. Fortunately, there are other options, and if anyone reading this does seriously struggle with performance anxiety and has tried these things and been unsuccessful, I’d recommend you speak to your PCP about potentially trying beta blockers to help. They’ve been a godsend for me, especially in auditions where I tend to have the worst nerves. |
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starkadder Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 May 2008 Posts: 542
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Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 11:12 am Post subject: |
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One thing that helped me when I started to feel the butterflies immediately before a performance was to acknowledge the feeling, rather than to fight it, and to harness that feeling as a signal that "this is going to be significant", instead of "this is scary". |
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Trumpjerele Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Feb 2019 Posts: 188 Location: Spain
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Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Do you feel those feelings of anxiety lessen if you imagine said scenario more often? |
Of course, it helps.
But what I wanted to express is that preparation alone will not eliminate anxiety.
Just like practicing scales or repertoire, you have to practice playing in public, to expose yourself. _________________ Notice!!! Amateur musician without formal studies
Trumpet: Yamaha 8310Z
Mouthpiece: the great Yamaha11b4
Sax tenor: Yamaha YTS 23
Mouthpiece: Otto link tone edge |
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chase1973 Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Nov 2018 Posts: 138 Location: Valdosta
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Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2023 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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we all handle "nerves" our own way. I know for a fact both Neil Diamond and Barbra Streisand would puke their guts out before each concert from nerves. Streisand so much so, it got to where she had to have the lyrics of each song posted on big screens around the stage in case she forget a line or two.
Many performers, in an effort to combat nerves would drink or take drugs. I take beta blockers for my blood pressure. As for us Trumpet players...Doc Severinsen used to get nervous as HELL! I saw him trembling in his hands while warming up with a harmon mute before a concert in 1986. Another time, he was witnessed pacing back 'n forth saying outload to himself "I am the best, I cannot miss!" over and over.
Maynard Ferguson used to meditate for a few moments before each concert to calm down and get in the "zone." Then there were guys like Bill Chase who would just swagger out on stage and start wailing away with amazing confidence. An interviewer asked Jon Faddis about performance anxiety and he said he NEVER gets it...I just don't think about it...I don't have time to be nervous."
I do know the more confident you are in your abilities, the less it will affect you...but...it all depends on your ego and personality as well... |
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