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Kamyar Regular Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2015 Posts: 17
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:10 am Post subject: Rims comparison, WHINNY |
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Hi All,
1-Would someone please compare these three mps :
Yamaha 11C4 and 11B4 and BACH 7C from just Rim point of view?
2-May be a newbie question, doing 'WHINNY', is it a specific technic that one can achieve by just practicing or is it an individual capability depending on embouchure, lips,mouthpiece, etc?...or maybe something else?
Many Thanks, |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8925 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:25 am Post subject: |
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The Yamaha pieces have identical feeling rims. And both of them have less bite than the typical Bach 7C. I can't play a Bach 7C for long without irritation but I can play the 11B4 or 11C4 on the picc with no discomfort at all.
The whinny I can't help with. Back in high school I could do that with no problem. These days I can't do it to save my life. I would recommend experimenting with different half-valve combinations. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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dstdenis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:44 am Post subject: |
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Awhile back I stumbled on a scanned image of a really old article on how to do the whinny for sleigh ride. I can't find the link, but I remember the principles and have used it in performances successfully.
Push the third valve down about halfway, but barely depress the first two valves. This adds enough resistance to swoop up and down but without shutting down the airflow (which is a common mistake).
Start on about a top of staff E, quickly gliss up to around a G, then play a long gliss down. Blow fairly strong but don't start too loud. Get louder as you gliss down so it's pretty loud near the end.
The article recommended shaking the instrument with your right hand to get the pulses, but I pulse the air instead. I don't want to risk bouncing the mpc on my chops. Your choice. The pulses should start shallow then become more pronounced during the downward gliss.
Most important: don't be bashful, shy, or sheepish about this. You have to believe that this is really going to work and play with confidence. _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi |
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Jerry Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2002 Posts: 2168 Location: Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:23 am Post subject: |
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dstdenis wrote: | Push the third valve down about halfway, but barely depress the first two valves. This adds enough resistance to swoop up and down but without shutting down the airflow (which is a common mistake).
Start on about a top of staff E, quickly gliss up to around a G, then play a long gliss down. Blow fairly strong but don't start too loud. Get louder as you gliss down so it's pretty loud near the end.
The article recommended shaking the instrument with your right hand to get the pulses.... The pulses should start shallow then become more pronounced during the downward gliss.
Most important: don't be bashful, shy, or sheepish about this. You have to believe that this is really going to work and play with confidence. |
A whinny is most effective when it's loud! These instructions will you help you get it loud.
(I'm not familiar with Yamaha rims, but I have found a Bach 7C rim uncomfortable for me. A Curry 7C, however, is fine.) |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:20 am Post subject: |
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Hi
A chap I used to play with had an interesting way of playing the horse whinny in sleigh ride. He used to put a wooden clothes peg on I believe the 3rd valve stem, presumably as a easier and predictable way of achieving dstdenis's advice of pushing the 3rd valve down about halfway. I have no idea what else he did, having no idea at all how to do this myself, and having always delegated this. Over the years I've had some colleagues with some really great horse whinnys.
Regarding the Bach 7C rim compared to the Yamaha 11C4 (and presumably the 11B4, which I haven't played, but understand to have the same rim), I haven't played either for over ten years, but from memory, the rim of the Bach 7C has a sharper bite and falls away more to the outside than the 11C4.
I have a feeling that all the Yamaha rims ending with a 4 have a similar rim contour, which is more along the lines of a Bach 3C, but possibly slightly rounder.
All the best
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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