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GR Beta Testing Results


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Which GR Rim tested best during the GR Beta Tests?
Red
48%
 48%  [ 18 ]
Yellow
16%
 16%  [ 6 ]
Blue
35%
 35%  [ 13 ]
Total Votes : 37

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Paul Tomashefsky
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just curious. . . .how were people chosen for this "Beta Test" ?

was it just rims that were different ie. bite / feel or were there other differnces too. . . .throat size etc. . .


P.
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TaylorBarnett80
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 3:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The mouthpieces were identical with the exception of the rim shapes (highpoint, bite radius, etc).

I'm not sure how people were chosen other than we offered our names and then they responded that we would be included in the beta testing.

Taylor
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B. Scriver
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TaylorBarnett80 wrote:
I have a thought about the three rims being tested that I haven't shared but that I figure I should put in writing here.

Here's my theory, which is entirely based on speculation.

By my reasoning, in order for the results of this to be the most useful, there would need to be a reference to the rims that GR already makes. My theory is that the Blue rim is their standard rim. I also wonder if one of the other two rims, either the Red or Yellow, are also rims that they currently offer. That would mean that only one of the rims being tested is actually new.

Based on the descriptions on their sites, I'll guess that the Yellow rim is the E rim and that only the Red rim is new.

When the testing is all over, I'm curious to see what the identity of the three rims are and if I'm right about my hypothesis.

Taylor


Ha! You may be surprised when the mouthpiece models are revealed. Then again, you may not...

Brian Scriver
www.grmouthpieces.com
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Shelbywmccarty
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just received my 65 pieces. I haven't even seen them. I am at work and my wife called me and told me that they came. Can't wait!
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wilcox96
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay gang...I'm done testing and have actually sent the mpcs on to the next victim...er...I mean tester. ha.

Let me start by thanking Gary and Brian for the opportunity to be a part of this. I enjoyed it and hope the results are informative to everyone.

I'll also say that I came into this whole thing fully aware of the "possibility" of this test really being on each of us! There is a part of me who envisions Gary and Brian laughing their a$$e$ off every night, because this is "not" a rim test at all - but a way to have some fun with us and to prove what magic Gary can do with other components of the mpc to make us "think" the rim is different! I'm not saying that's what it is...but I would also not be totally surprised at the end to find this out! I mean...to the naked eye...I can't say with all certainty there is a difference. Yeah yeah yeah...I know some of these things can be microscopic and there'd be no way to really "see" it. We have all been implanted with the notion that these are "rim" changes - so the power of suggestion "is" at play....

But on with my thoughts and results.

The trumpet I used is a Stage 1 California light. My current fav mpc is a GR 66 with a Primal cup and a T-72 bb. So...although I was comfortable with the rim circumference, the cup and bb were certainly different than the test models. No worries though, as I was able to play all 3 of them just fine. I did test vs my current mpc, just to do so.

I played all the test material, several times over the course of a couple of days. I also played through other things...exercises...and played through some of a Broadway show book I'm reading through (start The Color Purple next week). I could play fine on all the test material - breath attacks were pretty even...but when I went for all the low note stuff, the Blue rim did not speak as well for me. Other material was okay...but I really did feel like the Blue would back up on me when I played a bit louder.

All of the rims were very comfortable...but I will say it was very much like Goldilocks in the Three Bear's house. One felt too big...one too small...and one, just right! Let me explain more:

Blue >>> This mpc ended up feeling like it really kept your chops way out of the cup. This is fine...but also tended to feel backed up and perhaps fought a little bit. Attacks were clean. The sound was very dark and stuffy to me. I know some people like that...and I would even agree that the sound could be totally different on different players. ( one might sound dark...another might sound bright). This was a pleasing sound...but the overall feel and blow was not right for me. Keep this in mind though, as I continue... This one felt smaller, because it kept the chops way out of the cup.

Yellow >>> This mpc was kind of the opposite of the Blue. I "fell" into this cup. It's not that either one was necessarily larger in circumference.. but it's just that - whatever funky thing that was different about it - allowed the chops to sink right in. Again...very comfortable...and I was still able to get breath attacks to perform well..also the other test exercises. This mpc did have a much brighter and vibrant sound. Low notes were much more accessible and volume (as well as range) was far improved over the Blue. However, because your chops engaged so much into the cup, endurance might be a problem with this one. Playing the loud to soft was okay...but there was so much chop movement in and out that I just didn't feel as "solid" on this one. Better than the Blue...but that may very well speak to the fact that I more align with the tonal quality of the Yellow vs the Blue. Okay...keeping with my theme.. this one felt too big.

Red >>> This one tested well on all material. It was a tiny bit less vibrant than the Yellow, but as you put the air to it...and especially above the staff...it did just fine. The rim was very comfortable and felt.. you guessed it... "just right". Very much inbetween the Blue and Yellow. Not too big, not too small. In other words, I felt it was pretty balanced between chop engagement and keeping them secure around and out of the cup. Low notes were secure and it was easier to move in and out of loud/soft. Attacks were clear. I felt very solid and stable on this rim. This made me very curious about how this rim (or any of the rims, for that matter) would react to, say my cup and bb combo? The comfort of this Red rim (along with it's attributes) and my stuff?? Could be lethal. ...and very enjoyable. Would it sound the same way I like to sound? Brian?? Any guesses there...with only a rim change?

I honestly didn't really notice true rim feel differences. It was really more how much chop ended up being engaged (or not) into the cup that made the differences for me. They were all comfortable. None seemed overly wide or narrow...or rounded vs flat... per se. If there are variances in these rims...then they sure are subtle. Yet...enough to make each one different. Amazing. Gary... wow.

If anyone has any questions ...or would like me to comment further, just post here. I'll be watching anyway, to read the other's experiences. This was a real gas. Thanks again...
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Yamahaguy
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wilcox96 wrote:
I'm done testing and have actually sent the mpcs on to the next victim...er...I mean tester.
That would be me...looking forward to it. Let ya know in a couple days.
Peace,
-Dennis
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B. Scriver
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ML52K wrote:
Neat experience. Got 3 really shiny GR mouthpieces.

Very interesting results too.

Yellow was the best for me in my Wild Thing.

The blue was fastest starting on the soft G, but the yellow had a bright, clear sound in the mid and upper register. The blue sounded the weakest and most muffled of all three, and the red was just about in between.

All the mouthpieces performed about the same in the lower register, but slurs and accuracy were also best with the yellow rim.

My own mouthpiece, a Monette B6, was beaten by the yellow rim.

I am grateful to have had the opportunity to participate in this testing and look forward to more results and final disclosure.

Thanks Bri and GR!


Do you think the GR Playing Tests will help you with future equipment choices? How did your present mouthpiece compare specifically?

Brian Scriver
www.grmouthpieces.com
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wilcox96
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you don't mind, Brian...I'll give my "own" answers to your questions...

I think the tests were good...but are a starting point. They do provide you with the right concepts to think about when you move on to playing other things (while testing). This is the best part about them.

Funny...practicing with my current mpc tonight...mmm... I hate you Brian. ha. That Red rim was much more comfortable than what I'm playing on. And I really "like" my current mpc!!! I tell you, even that Blue rim (..okay...all the danged versions) was very comfortable. Still.. I'm seeing RED>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't wait to be embarassed when the real info is posted. hahaha.
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jcstites
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wilcox96 wrote:

Funny...practicing with my current mpc tonight...mmm... I hate you Brian. ha. That Red rim was much more comfortable than what I'm playing on. And I really "like" my current mpc!!! I tell you, even that Blue rim (..okay...all the danged versions) was very comfortable. Still.. I'm seeing RED>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't wait to be embarassed when the real info is posted. hahaha.


I want that red mouthpiece! Maybe there is something special about the red mp in the set we had.
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B. Scriver
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe we should just market colors instead of numbered pieces. It is funny how some players actually play differently when they know what the mouthpiece is. I have seen players manipulate to play certain pieces because they thought they needed a particular cup etc.

Brian Scriver
www.grmouthpieces.com
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Dan O'Donnell
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I learned several things from this fun and educational test...

1.) The RED was the favorite among (2) pro's yet even being just an amateur musician, I was very serious when it came to my input...I "stuck to my guns" and was the 1st person to choose the BLUE.

2.) Several testers have noted the BLUE had a "muffled" tone yet for ME, I found that it had a warm, dark, rich tone that I personally like...once again the "perception" of "dull" versus "warm" comes down to a personal preference.

3.) A subtle change in the bite etc. of a MP can change the playability and sound significantly!

On a side note...today, Brian notified me that the MPs I sent to the next tester arrived in "mint" condition...WOW...what a load off my mind...I still have nightmares about the unnecessary surgery performed on me by GR!
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B. Scriver
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GR doesn't perform "unnecessary" surgery. Bri

Brian Scriver
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Dan O'Donnell
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PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Touche'
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Shelbywmccarty
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 3:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mouthpieces arrived in mint condition from Tony. I will be at the jr high in a few and will do some first round testing!
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B. Scriver
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last call for volunteers! Anyone else interested please send me an e-mail with your full shipping address. United States residents only please. Thanks!

Brian Scriver
www.grmouthpieces.com
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Shelbywmccarty
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i just finished round one. I play on a getzen eterna proteus. My mouthpiece was a yamaha 14b4 w/ kanstul bach 76 bb. here are my results so far...


Playing test #1, breath attack on middle G.
R,X,B,Y
Playing test #2, articulation 16th’s -dotted 1/8th 16th.
R,X,Y,B
Playing test #3, low soft slurs.
B,X,R,Y
Playing test #4, intervals, articulation,
B,R,Y,X
Playing Test #5, Grandioso, loud to soft.
R,B,Y,X Key test, cause this one is what i wanted to change about my setup! I will finish this test later.

update: I just polled my 8th grade band. I played the test#5 for them. I gave them numbers 1-4 and they rated them 1-4..best to worst. I got the following:
Red and yellow tied for first with 5 first place votes. yellow several more 2nd place votes. So, yellow wins the #5 exercise test from a sound perspective. Interesting!
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wilcox96
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

B. Scriver wrote:
Maybe we should just market colors instead of numbered pieces. It is funny how some players actually play differently when they know what the mouthpiece is. I have seen players manipulate to play certain pieces because they thought they needed a particular cup etc.

Brian Scriver
www.grmouthpieces.com


For what it's worth....I don't feel this way at all. I truly am not hung up on things like this. I go for what feels and sounds the best. This - and only this - is why I've gravitated to GR for so many years. Of any mpc I've played over my career, these just sound and feel great.

jcstites...we will arm wrestle for the red. hahaha. Nah... I suspect that Gary will be happy to make multiples...
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J-Walk
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brad,

The real question I'd like to know is if you guys are really wrestling over an all-new fuel injected super Red rim, or perhaps a cleverly disguised Paul Butcher rim?

I guess we'll see soon enough!
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Hack001
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me just say that I was expecting something completely different in terms of the results. Reading all I've read about GR and seeing the results people have gotten here with the Beta test I was stoked to be trying something better than I already had.

I played on an Edwards Generation II C, and my current mouthpiece is a Karl Hammond Design custom piece… around a 66 diameter, maybe a barely deeper cup than the GR test pieces, 23 throat and a larger backbore.

4. Playing test #1, breath attack on middle G.
X – R – B – Y
I’ve never really done breath attacks, and don’t really see their usefulness, so perhaps take this with a grain of salt. My mp sounded fairly instantly, the R was close but maybe not as immediate, B took a split second to sound, and Y had this strange “accent” when it did sound that I could not get rid of.

5. Playing test #2, articulation 16th’s -dotted 1/8th 16th.
R – X – Y – B
IT was hard to gauge whether I was hearing articulation on this test or the very different sound the GRs had from my mp. The GRs were significantly brighter and edgier than mine: almost with a jazz-like “zing” to them. At any rate, the R had the cleanest, most immediate attack. Both the B and Y I found had an accent-like quality that was hard to get rid of. I preferred the sound of my mp’s attack, but the R was more instant, which is what I think this test was trying to evaluate.

6. Playing test #3, low soft slurs.
X – Y – R - B
There was no contest here. I was almost never successful in playing octave G's right on with the GRs. There was a skip up to an E in the last m. of this test and was mostly easier on the B and R, but I always felt too “locked in.” This feeling stood for the rest of the tests also. The GR’s felt very rigid and did not allow much smoothness in the way of feeling or sound.

7. Playing test #4, intervals, articulation, intonation, and accuracy.
X – B – R - Y
This was an interesting test. I got very tired with the R and Y rims, and felt like I had to work very hard to get through this with those two rims. I missed a lot of notes with those rims as well. Again, I had a hard time thinking musically and making this sound easy with those rims as they were very insistent on where I should place the notes!

8. Playing Test #5, Grandioso, loud to soft.
X – R – B - Y
In regards to sound, none of the GR rims felt too comfortable all the way through; I always felt as though the “f” levels had too much buzz, whereas I felt I could control the sound more with my mp. The “p” levels were very clear with the GR pieces.

9. Which rim felt the best?
Of the GR pieces, R – B - Y

10. Which rim performed the best?
Of the GR pieces, R – Y - B

11. Which rim felt the biggest?
Y easily

12. Which rim felt the smallest?
B


For me, it was difficult to choose some of the rankings because I very much did not prefer the sound of the GRs, so unless asked, I tried to go solely on response, feel, and accuracy. None of the rims felt badly, but none of the rims did I prefer over my current piece in regards to feel. In my own tests with excerpts and solos, the B and R did have slightly better immediate response high and low, but I felt as though I could not control the type of articulation; the mp’s were dictating that for me. The B and Y were strange. B felt so small that I couldn’t control much, and the Y felt so big… that I couldn’t control much. The R felt more “right” and comfortable.

I feel badly that I did not find the GR pieces more favorable. I truly was expecting going in that these would be drastically better than what I have now. So it goes. I enjoyed trying out different equipment though!
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wilcox96
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PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-Walk wrote:
Brad,

The real question I'd like to know is if you guys are really wrestling over an all-new fuel injected super Red rim, or perhaps a cleverly disguised Paul Butcher rim?

I guess we'll see soon enough!


You are totally on it, J.... ha. That's why I said I expect to be embarassed! hahaha.
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