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GR Beta Testing Results


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Which GR Rim tested best during the GR Beta Tests?
Red
52%
 52%  [ 18 ]
Yellow
11%
 11%  [ 4 ]
Blue
35%
 35%  [ 12 ]
Total Votes : 34

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B. Scriver
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Joined: 14 Jan 2002
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Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2009 4:36 pm    Post subject: GR Beta Testing Results Reply with quote

Please indicate which GR rim you prefer and describe your findings with each rim. We will let you know the identity of each rim when the Beta Testing has been completed. Thanks!

Brian Scriver
www.grmouthpieces.com
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TaylorBarnett80
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I received the three pieces today and played through the different excerpts:
- air attack soft note
- low, slurred melody
- articulated intervals at different dynamics
- march-like etude with a wide dynamic range

I tested them in different orders and tried to do it blindly. I came up with the same order of preference for all 4 mouthpieces (the 3 testers and my usual setup) each time. The Red and Blue were very close and both played better than my normal mouthpiece.

The Red rim felt to be very much a middle of the road shape.

The Blue felt slightly wider (maybe sloping away from the high point of the rim a little bit slower).

The Yellow had a high point closer to the outside and felt bigger in diameter and did not perform as well as the other three pieces.

My piece performed well, which is good. It just didn't respond as well or have the warmth that the Red and Blue had. I should add that my piece is a Warburton 5M with a 5* BB. Since the GR test pieces were 65 series with the M cup and a medium BB, they were basically the exact same size that I normally play. It made switching between all four pieces easy and there was almost no adjustment for me to make to play the test pieces.

I may try the tests again tomorrow but this time just focusing on the Red and Blue. I don't expect the results to change since the Red won unanimously in all performance categories: response, articulation, dynamic range, and most importantly: sound.

Taylor


Last edited by TaylorBarnett80 on Thu May 14, 2009 1:51 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Dan O'Donnell
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TH Friends,

I have (3) proto-type GR MPs that have Red, Yellow & Blue written on them for sale...

(Relax Brian, I'm just kidding...)

I recieved them yesterday...I will be play testing them today and tomorrow...then sending them to the next test participant this Thursday...and document my thorough review on this thread on Friday.

I'm just now getting over the Swine flu so I hope I don't get any germs on the MPs...

(Relax Brian, I'm still just kidding...)

By the way...the MPs look GREAT!!!
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B. Scriver
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dan,
Taylor just told me this about the mouthpieces:
"It's been said before but the craftsmanship is incredible. They look like surgical equipment or something!"

Dan, in fact GR has been known to perform certain surgical procedures on certain trumpet players just for fun.

Don't relax Dan...I'm not kidding. Bri

Brian Scriver
www.grmouthpieces.com
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B. Scriver
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Below is Marvin Stamm's test summary.

All three mouthpieces played well, and I feel I could perform on all of them. But the “R” seemed to get the best results all-around, and I liked the tone quality and clarity in all registers the best on the “R.”

Brian Scriver
www.grmouthpieces.com
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Dan O'Donnell
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TH Friends,

I just finished Day #1 of play testing all (3) MPs.

I played them for a total of (3 1/2) hours using the exercises provided by GR as well as some of the exercises and pieces I am used to playing.

I am evaluating them based on their playability and sound for ME and MY chops.

All (3) are good MPs however, so far, there is one I like more than the others.

Tomorrow, I will complete my play testing and compare today's results with tomorrow's results in order to provide GR (and you) with a very unbiased opinion of these MPs.

I will then vote for my favorite MP and post some details as to what I like about the MP.

My ultimate goal is to minimize my risk of having unnecessary surgery.
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Dan O'Donnell

"Praise Him with the sound of the Trumpet:..."
Psalms 150:3
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razeontherock
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just wanted to give my vote of confidence for all the great work and contributions you guys at GR are doing for the entire brass playing community.

I have weird chops that focus best on ID smaller than .620" so I can't participate. But I sure want to have a look at a skyrocket!! Somebody even had one on here but swapped it out before I could get to it - so if that doesn't work out yes that's a HINT

Ray
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Charlie Melk
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Location: West Allis, WI

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 5:04 am    Post subject: GR Beta Testing Results Reply with quote

I did my test with my Bach ML 37 Bb trumpet, and here are my results.

I would rate the mouthpieces this way,
Yellow and my own piece as almost a tie, the next with the best test results was the Red, with the Blue the worst.

The Blue did pass the test with very good results on the breath attack, but I had a difficult time with the low soft slurs and also with intervals. If I would come up form a low A to a middle A, it was difficult to get the middle A to lock in. The Yellow and my piece passed this test easily.

After working with GR for some years now, I am still amazed at how much difference the correct match, (mouthpiece-horn-player) can make in all aspects of playing. I would easily be able to play the Yellow, but I would struggle with the Blue. And the only difference is the rim.
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Dan O'Donnell
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TH Friends,

Yesterday, I completed play testing the (3) MPs.

For ME and MY chops...they consistently ranked in the following order for each of the tests I conducted...

1st Place: BLUE
2nd Place: YELLOW
3rd Place: RED

Sound:

Intonation - According to my ear and my electronic tuner...All (3) MPs were spot on!

Tone - The BLUE had really nice tone quality!

Playability:

Soft Slurrs - The BLUE one slotted / locked into the notes very well. My low C softly slurring up to a G on top of the staff flowed evenly and more beautifully than the other (2) MPs.

Articulation / Response - Compared with the others...The BLUE "pronounced" notes very well and the response was immediate. It also took less air to "air start" (not tonguing) very nice sounding notes at soft volumes.

Range - The BLUE one allowed me to play higher notes easier than the other (2) MPs.

"Perceived" Feel:

RED = Smaller diameter, cramped, not enough of MY chops entered into the cup needed to produce the ideal sound and playability characteristics for ME.

BLUE = Perfect engagement of MY chops into the MP!

YELLOW = Larger diameter, too much room for MY chops causing them to enter too far into the cup making them less efficient causing me to work a little harder.

Conclusion...

My test results (along with the test results from other participants) validate two things...

1.) MPs truly are just like shoes...One size does not fit all!

2.) GR is capable of producing the right MP for anyone!
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Dan O'Donnell

"Praise Him with the sound of the Trumpet:..."
Psalms 150:3
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J-Walk
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just finished my testing this afternoon. First I need to say that all three pieces tested well in the lower and middle registers, and intonation was excellent on all of them. The key test was the last exercise focusing on Grandioso playing with all of the loud to soft dynamic changes. This is where I noticed one very clear winner.

My experience sounds like it was nearly identical to Dan's. Blue clearly won out in the GR testing, and then later in my own playing as well. Next was Red (a little too sharp in the bite for my chops), then last was Yellow (just felt a bit big for me). Blue is the only one that felt as good or better to me than my current piece (Purviance 5*K4). It should be noted though, that in the GR tests which focused on the low and middle registers, my Purviance came in last on at least half of the tests (obviously some "discontinuities" in my piece). In the high register (above the staff), the Blue and my 5*K4 were far better than the others. Overall, the Purviance rim is much better for me than the GR Red or Yellow, but the Blue easily rivaled the comfort and flexibility that I can achieve on my MP.

Very interesting results indeed... I also threw my GRe65M-B into the mix and it was not as good a fit for me as the 66 Blue. It will be interesting to learn other's experiences as they do the testing!
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B. Scriver
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We would like to thank all the Beta testers, they have all done a wonderful job and we are learning from them. Each test pilot had great insight and there perceptions were amazingly accurate.

Here are a few things of note:

Most so far repeated the tests on separate days and the results were the same. One thing to note that we have learned from this group. Rim perception/size/feel depends on the player, some used the inner bite radius as a gauge and other felt the highpoint to determine size. We have put parameters on mouthpieces and we are learning that people can actually feel them and perceive them accurately. We will keep you posted to see if this trend continues.
Dan O'Donnell said, " 1.) MPs truly are just like shoes...One size does not fit all!"

To sum it up Dan is right on the money. I think the concept that "He plays a ________" so maybe I should too, or my high school teacher makes us play a _________ mouthpiece kind of thinking is going by the wayside. In the future, the correct match and the entire system will be considered when choosing equipment. It is surprising and also very alarming how many college trumpet profs actually want their students on a certain mouthpiece, without any testing or any reason other than the prof plays that certain mouthpiece himself.

Hey, I have an idea. Let's get the entire basketball team wearing Michael Jordan's shoes, size 13. I bet by wearing those they will take the championship this year. I could rant on this forever as it is very aggravating to see how many students are messed up by this!

We have received great reviews on the GR quality. Thank you for the feedback! Anybody care to comment? Capt.Kirk started another thread ANyone notice the huge difference in various silver plating. Some players might want to comment on this subject regarding our product. Please let us know what you thought of the GR finish when you received your mouthpiece and also after years of playing etc.

GR and Brian Scriver
www.grmouthpieces.com
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Shelbywmccarty
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i cant wait to get them.
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Dan O'Donnell
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding the quality of GR's Silver plated MPs...

I will clarify my earlier statement in this thread..."the MPs look GREAT!"

During my (25)+ years of play testing MPs...I have never seen such a brilliant finish on a Silver MP than I observed on the GR MPs I play tested!

I was so impressed, I was worried my play testing would create insertion marks on the outside of the backbore (which it didn't).

I have been around Nickel/Chrome Electro-Plating for MANY years however, I don't know anything about Silver plating.

I am aware that in order to create a brilliant finish on Brass, some of the many critical process factors include the following...

quality Brass alloy...attention to detail as it relates to preparing a surface to be Electro-plated i.e. buffing or burnishing / thorough cleaning...the exact chemistry formula in the plating baths including the proper amount of "brightner" chemicals...the proper balance of electrical current / conductivity etc. etc. etc.

When all of the process factors above (and more) are properly aligned...the process will produce a beautiful brilliant finish.

As for Music leaders requiring students to use a specific size MP...

I remember our Band Director in High School who used to tell the Trumpet players they needed a Bach 1 1/2C to play in "his" orchestra.

Due to the fact that you had to be good to play in the orchestra...and the Trumpet players played on Bach 1 1/2Cs...the other (9th grade) Trumpet players (myself included) believed the only way to play "good" is to play on a Bach 1 1/2C MP.

Many years later...I still sounded HORRIBLE the last time I play testing a Bach 1 1/2C while "trying" to like it prior to learning the truth about MPs.

Brian,

When are you going to "unveil" the details regarding the dimensional / characteristic differences for each of the (3) MPs we tested?
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Dan O'Donnell

"Praise Him with the sound of the Trumpet:..."
Psalms 150:3
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miles71
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just received the 65 versions of the test pieces today. They look great, as with all GR's I have owned. The finish is ridiculously good, and I can attest to its durability. I have a GR aprox. 5-6 years old, my war horse, and it is only looking aged by the insertion marks. Cup and rim still looking good!

1st round of tests done, but I will withhold my findings until I can get some more time on them.

I am a HS Band Director by day, and I went through the "play a 3C" crap when I was in school. NONE of my students, private or school, are told they have to play ANYTHING. The only rules I have are: reputable professional company, high quality build, you sound the best you can.

At this time my entire trumpet section in Jazz Band play GR's, and half my Wind Band section. While it is tough sometimes to defend to a parent they should by their kid an expensive mouthpiece, however the argument of "how much where those shoulder pads for football" helps.

More to come, thanks to GR and Brian for including all of us in this test.
TD
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jcstites
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried the 66 series mouthpieces. After the first set of tests it was obvious which one worked best for me and it wasn't my current mouthpiece. The results were similar each day with the red coming out on top.

The yellow had a great sound, but was much harder to play and the response wasn't very good. The blue had better response and playability, but not like the red. The red worked great on every test. It did feel smaller than the others, but felt like a totally different rim shape.

The finish and quality was perfect on all 3 and the silver felt great on my chops.

Bri, what will happen to all these mouthpieces? I want a red one
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J-Walk
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a follow up on my results... I e-mailed GR my final observations and Brian asked me to include them here for public consumption so here's the final verdict (some of this is redundant from my earlier post):

I currently play a Calicchio 1s/7 (ML .460 bore) with a Purviance 5*K4 mouthpiece.

I tested the 66 series pieces and here are my final rankings:

1) GR 66 Blue
2) My Old Purviance 5*K4
3) GR 66 Red
4) GR66 Yellow

Here are my general comments on the beta test:

All 3 of the GR pieces had better intonation throughout the middle and low registers than my 5*K4. They also blew more consistently from low on up, through my entire range.

After completing the playing tests for two consecutive days, I spent some time in the high register with all of these pieces and that was also very telling in regards to rim profile. The 66 Blue was the clear winner overall, but my 5*K4 was just as comfortable above the staff. The 66 Red and 66 Yellow were not a good fit at all once a little pressure had to be applied up higher. The Red was too sharp in the bite, and the Yellow felt too large in bite diameter.

I believe that my chops “feel” rim diameter based more on the placement of the high point than on any other rim parameter. I also believe that for me, the inner edge of the rim must have a more gradual transition in the curve between the high point of the rim and the cup in order for me to maximize flexibility. The caveat here is that where a piece like the 66 Yellow does not work well for me, a 65 Yellow might work well since the perceived “largeness” was probably due to the high point of the rim being farther out into the middle of the rim. This is of course simply based on the perceived “feel” of the 66 Yellow on my chops (What do I know anyways? ). The rim contour of the Yellow did not bother me at all, it was simply more of the effect of my chops feeling as if they were falling into the cup a bit.

These were just some of my initial observations...
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Jason Rahn
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-Pickett Brass Paul Baron Lead/Calicchio 1S/7 Bb
-Pickett Brass Paul Baron FLs/ Courtois 154 Flugel
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miles71
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK here is what I found.

GR Beta Test Additional Comments
May 9-10, 2009
Player -Tony Domenico
Instruments:
- NYTC New York Model Bb by Possegger
- NYTC California Custom Model Bb with Copper bell, rounded sterling tuning slide
Mouthpieces tested:
GR Beta models labeled Blue, Red, Yellow and personal owned GR65L

Response: The tests on the Cal. Bb where very close, all mouthpieces performed well with the exception of the yellow. It was a little harder to respond at extreme low volumes. With that being said any of these pieces would work and performed well enough. The Cal. NYTC horn is a Med bore design and mine was adjusted to take GR’s perfectly when built.
The NYTC New York Model was a different story. The 65L was the best with response with the Yellow a close second. The Blue was not as responsive and the Red was difficult to play. The NYTC New York is a large bore horn with a very open feel. I have a #4 leadpipe in at this time.
Feel: All of the GR’s feel great, the finish is incredibly good and the rims are all very comfortable on the lips. I still prefer the 65L but the Blue and the Yellow are also very comfortable. I like the Blue on the Cal model and the Yellow on the New York model horn prospectively (with the exception of my 65L which I still like best).
Flexibility: After completing the GR test sent to me I took the flexibility on to some of the Vizzutti studies. In Book #3 the Vocalise Studies helped to test the flexibility of the rims. Afer some slow lyrical playing the 65L came out on top for the New York Model and the Blue came out on top for the Cal model. The Yellow and Red performed well but had a bit of a “pop” on each note that was not present on the others.
Tone Shift: Let me explain, I don’t think the tone should shift as you play higher or lower. Of course the frequency will change but the tone should have the same resonance and roundness throughout. With the Cal model the tone would brighten considerably as I played in the upper register. I keep it reasonable and played a low G below the staff up to G above the staff and then continued to a D one note above High C. The Blue kept the same tone and roundness on all of the notes, the 65L was acceptable, and the Red and Yellow brightened as I went higher. On the New York Model the Yellow and the 65L held together best. The Red and Blue did fine but did not have the resonance of the other two.
Intonation: One of the reason I play the NYTC horns is because of the great intonation. So I figured this would be an easy one. However I did find I had more room to move around on the notes with the Yellow.

Overall Comments:
I have played GR pieces exclusively for years now, I have been able to blindly find GR’s to fit pretty good on all of my horns with help from Brian and being lucky enough to find many GR’s to try at a time. This experience just shows me that the mouthpiece should fit the horn. The results I got where different on both my Bb’s by a big margin. Also, the rim feels are amazingly different, but still the same “size”. I think I would put the Blue on the top of my list, not only because it performed well, but also because I am happy with my 65L on my main horn. I would also be curious to try a 66 version of the Red. I think the smaller feel with the physically bigger rim might help fatten up tone but retain the characteristics of a smaller rim. The Yellow reminds me a little of an old 3HC* I have somewhere.
I went from some really expensive, heavy, gold mouthpieces to GR years ago. Every time I get to play on something of theirs I remember why and am happy I did. There are many manufacturers out there making some very nice stuff, but I am happy with the GR’s and recommend them highly.
Thank you guys for including me in this process. I look forward to the outcome and seeing what the actual dimensions are.
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wilcox96
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PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fyi...I've received the 66 series yesterday and am in the process of going thru the testing. A testament to the quality..and the care taken by the previous testers...the mpcs look fantasticly unblemished. I hope I can maintain that trend!! ha.

Anyway...as any kid with new toys, yes...I've tried them, but will also hold my comments for a day or so. I feel I will not only have a truer sense of the attributes of each, but my results will be after more thorough testing.

Do I already have a notion of the outcome?? ha....YES!<<<but inquiring minds will have to stay tuned. I will say this - after following along with the other testers, it is still amazing to note how each individual reacts to the differences and tonal qualities in their own way. Some of it has to do with the sound model each of us has in their head (in other words, how "we" expect to sound)...and even to the types of music and settings each of us generally play...further causing us to gravitate to a particular sound model. I can already see the variations between what others have experienced and what I am. Very interesting.

Okay gang.... more in a day or so. Check back!!! Thanks a ton, Gary... Brian.. this is fun stuff.
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ML52K
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neat experience. Got 3 really shiny GR mouthpieces.

Very interesting results too.

Yellow was the best for me in my Wild Thing.

The blue was fastest starting on the soft G, but the yellow had a bright, clear sound in the mid and upper register. The blue sounded the weakest and most muffled of all three, and the red was just about in between.

All the mouthpieces performed about the same in the lower register, but slurs and accuracy were also best with the yellow rim.

My own mouthpiece, a Monette B6, was beaten by the yellow rim.

I am grateful to have had the opportunity to participate in this testing and look forward to more results and final disclosure.

Thanks Bri and GR!
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TaylorBarnett80
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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a thought about the three rims being tested that I haven't shared but that I figure I should put in writing here.

Here's my theory, which is entirely based on speculation.

By my reasoning, in order for the results of this to be the most useful, there would need to be a reference to the rims that GR already makes. My theory is that the Blue rim is their standard rim. I also wonder if one of the other two rims, either the Red or Yellow, are also rims that they currently offer. That would mean that only one of the rims being tested is actually new.

Based on the descriptions on their sites, I'll guess that the Yellow rim is the E rim and that only the Red rim is new.

When the testing is all over, I'm curious to see what the identity of the three rims are and if I'm right about my hypothesis.

Taylor
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