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ChopsGone
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Joined: 20 Dec 2008
Posts: 1793
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 Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:13 am Post subject: |
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I did the same sort of order, although mine were 1.5's (plus a 5) - simply because of having horns with each taper. So far, I haven't tried the XO in anything in which it didn't yield a richer, fuller tone. As it turned out, 1.5 may be a bit of overkill, but they certainly do sound great.
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Vintage Olds & Reynolds & Selmers galore
Aubertins, Bessons, Calicchios, Courtois, Wild Things, Marcinkiewicz, Ogilbee Thumpet, DeNicola Puje, Kanstuls.... |
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tommy t.
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Mar 2002
Posts: 2599
Location: Wasatch Mountains
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| ChopsGone wrote: | | I did the same sort of order, although mine were 1.5's (plus a 5) - simply because of having horns with each taper. |
Green with envy.
I could see that -- one for brass band, one for cocktail hour with a bass and one for Children of Sanchez. Problem is I can't see that and my wife in the same house. She has trouble understanding two trumpets, two cornets and one flugel (plus a sax, a french horn, two flutes and a didj). Go figure!
Tommy T.
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Actually, I hate music. I just do this for the money. |
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shofarguy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 7013
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| tommy t. wrote: | | ChopsGone wrote: | | I did the same sort of order, although mine were 1.5's (plus a 5) - simply because of having horns with each taper. |
Green with envy.
I could see that -- one for brass band, one for cocktail hour with a bass and one for Children of Sanchez. Problem is I can't see that and my wife in the same house. She has trouble understanding two trumpets, two cornets and one flugel (plus a sax, a french horn, two flutes and a didj). Go figure!
Tommy T. |
Tommy,
I wonder if your wife has more than one skillet? More than one pot? Or pair of shoes??
Brian
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Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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RandyTX
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2010
Posts: 5299
Location: Central Texas
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:11 am Post subject: |
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I have this sneaky feeling that comparing horns and mpc's to cooking utensils is an argument you don't want to engage in. YMMV.
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"Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away." |
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tommy t.
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Mar 2002
Posts: 2599
Location: Wasatch Mountains
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| RandyTX wrote: | | I have this sneaky feeling that comparing horns and mpc's to cooking utensils is an argument you don't want to engage in. YMMV. |
Actually, I think it is a decent argument and I invite Brian to come out to Deep East Texas and make it. We've even got a guest appartment in the garage that he can stay in.
Tommy T.
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Actually, I hate music. I just do this for the money. |
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shofarguy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 7013
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| tommy t. wrote: | | RandyTX wrote: | | I have this sneaky feeling that comparing horns and mpc's to cooking utensils is an argument you don't want to engage in. YMMV. |
Actually, I think it is a decent argument and I invite Brian to come out to Deep East Texas and make it. We've even got a guest appartment in the garage that he can stay in.
Tommy T. |
You just want to make sure there is another captive target for those flying skillets and pots! 
Brian
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Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Scott42486
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 529
Location: San Antonio, Texas
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:12 am Post subject: |
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More Appropriately Brian, I believe he wants someone else to make that argument for him. I do believe that argument falls under the category of "suicide mission". I might be on the slightly young side but that one strikes me as something not to bring up around said kitchen utensils, or any sharp objects, or blunt objects, etc etc....
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Bach/Kanstul Frankenhorn
Warburton Mouthpieces |
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swing95
Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Posts: 167
Location: Portugal, Amadora
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| tommy t. wrote: | | swing95 wrote: | Hi,
I ordered, yesterday, 3 No.10.5 mouthpiece directly from Flip Oakes. One of each taper.
I am looking forward to play them as soon as I get them.
Cheers
Francisco |
Why did you order three different tapers? Any given horn only works with the single taper for which it was designed.
(I'm just curious. Several posibilities come to mind: you have three horns of different make and model; you have students who have different horns; you are a retailer who wants a selection to offer customers.)
Tommy T. |
They are for two flugels and one custom french taper pipe. The french taper pipe is an alternative for my Kanstul 1525, which I prefer than the original one.
Cheers |
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scarface
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Joined: 18 Feb 2004
Posts: 1806
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| Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| n00b question: Do the Flip Oakes numbers correlate roughly to Bach mp sizes? For example, if I've been practicing on a 1.25C Bach mp for trpt, should I consider starting with a #1.25 Extreme flugel horn mp? This will be used on a YFH-635ST, fwiw. |
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shofarguy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 7013
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| scarface wrote: | | n00b question: Do the Flip Oakes numbers correlate roughly to Bach mp sizes? For example, if I've been practicing on a 1.25C Bach mp for trpt, should I consider starting with a #1.25 Extreme flugel horn mp? This will be used on a YFH-635ST, fwiw. |
Yes, they are Bach sizes, but from the My Vernon era. Mark Curry has his own collection of Mt. Vernon Bach mouthpieces from which he got his rims. They are consistently a bit larger than their modern counterparts. So, for instance, I use the 5 rim instead of the 3 because it is closer to the modern Bach 3 in size. Generally speaking, the MV rims are "softer" than the modern versions, too. I really like them.
Flip has been using the 1-1/4 size himself, lately, to good effect. 
Brian
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Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Uberopa
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Dec 2003
Posts: 931
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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Hi,
I got my new X3 French taper yesterday and was able to A:B it with my WT3 GR mouthpipe.
Initial impression: "Ye Gods!" looking down the X3 reminded me of the old stereophile maxim that a good amplifier was a straight wire with gain. The geometry of the X3 gave me a moment to reflect on those years of buzzing exercises I spent. This X3 didn't look like it was going to cheat for me, even a bit.
I played on the WT3 GR combo first with my 70's Couesnon and I liked the sound and intonation. It gets squirrely around B natural above the staff into C#. Feels So Good would likely be a major challenge on this horn and m/p.
I rested for awhile and tried the original Couesnon mouthpipe and the French taper X3. First off, the mouthpiece dropped like a rock into the pipe and was stopped only by the rim curvature. Hmmmmmm a reamed out shank? With some trepidation I gave this setup a blow.
I was pleasantly surprised that I could easily produce a passable sound. Articulations are less "hard" and the blow is easy but has some resistance. The sound, yes, the sound. I struggled with this as to best describe it, considering the formidable eloquence of Shofarguy.
For me, the sound I produced had a small, dense central core or body with an outer ring of warm frequencies, Saturn and her rings?
The range was similar and no harder with the same high B/C#. Flexibility was the same on both setups but dynamic range was better with the X3.
As previously noted, articulation on the X3 was notably softer.
So those are my playing impressions. As a footnote, I had the pleasure of speaking by telephone with Mr. Oakes directly about my order. He is truly a fine gentleman and was extremely helpful and honest.
FWIW,
Brian |
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loil
Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Apr 2005
Posts: 335
Location: Marseille - France
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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Since Flip Oakes are not produced anymore but U can find it sometimes on ebay can anybody tell me the size compared to Bach ?
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C. LeLoiL
http://christopheleloil.com/
1969 Connstellation 38B
1977 Martin Committee
197* Couesnon Flugel
DONAT mpcs exclusively |
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shofarguy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007
Posts: 7013
Location: AZ
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| loil wrote: | | Since Flip Oakes are not produced anymore but U can find it sometimes on ebay can anybody tell me the size compared to Bach ? |
Flip may or may not have NOS mouthpieces left. His email address, flip@flipoakes.com, is still active, though Flip is officially retired now.
To your question, Flip used Mark Curry to manufacture his mouthpieces. Mark has two sets of models for his rims. His rim numbers with asterisks (*) are scanned from modern Bach rim sizes. The plain numbered (non-asterisk) sizes are reproduced from his Mt. Vernon era model collection and are somewhat larger diameter.
Flip used the MV Bach rims, so they are each a little larger than the current corresponding numbered Bach products. I find Flip's #5 just barely smaller than a modern 3 and his #3 about the same as a modern 1-1/2 Bach
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Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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Halflip
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1927
Location: WI
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| Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2024 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| loil wrote: | | Since Flip Oakes are not produced anymore but U can find it sometimes on ebay can anybody tell me the size compared to Bach ? |
This thread has some information:
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=95960
The first post shows a diagram comparing the Flip Oakes "Extreme" cup/throat/backbore to his standard cup/throat/backbore.
The second post shows that the "Extreme" models were available in 8 different cup diameters. You can compare these to the diameters of Bach mouthpieces (as published in the Bach mouthpiece manual) to partially answer your question (CAUTION: Cup diameter specs are never measured in a consistent way across different manufacturers). You could fully compare cup shapes, throat size, etc. on "The Unofficial Mouthpiece Comparator" available online, except for the fact that Flip Oakes mouthpiece scans are not available there.
The "Extreme" series would appear to have very deep cups and very big throats/backbores compared to Bach mouthpieces.
Since Mark Curry manufactured the Flip Oakes mouthpieces, he might have more information for you. You could try emailing him (or send him a PM here; his TH userid is "Mark Curry").
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"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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Man Of Constant Sorrow
Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Jun 2023
Posts: 473
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| Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2024 8:54 pm Post subject: |
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Is there some reason this topic/thread is in the Cornet/Flugelhorn Forum, rather than the Mouthpieces Forum ?
I am confused 
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Riojazz
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Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 1015
Location: Mid-Hudson Valley, NY
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| Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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I've read this and thread and the other thread. Are these mouthpieces still available at a dealer, for order?
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Matt Finley https://mattfinley.bandcamp.com/releases
Kanstul 1525 flugel with French taper, Shires Bb Destino Med & C trumpets, Schilke XA1 cornet, Schagerl rotary, Schilke P5-4 picc, Yamaha soprano sax, Powell flute. Sanborn GR66MS & Touvron-D. |
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drmayne
Regular Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Posts: 22
Location: seattle
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| Riojazz wrote: | | I've read this and thread and the other thread. Are these mouthpieces still available at a dealer, for order? |
I bought one fairly recently from Flip - flip@flipoakes.com - he still may have some left.
Mark Curry has been experimenting with something like the Xtreme - and may have available for sale - it is his FLX model (which isn't advertised on his website yet). I've played one, it isn't quite the same as an Xtreme, but same concept (it is deeeeep too). |
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Riojazz
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Joined: 25 Dec 2006
Posts: 1015
Location: Mid-Hudson Valley, NY
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 8:19 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the good info. I'm not familiar with this concept; I play a stock GR 66 Flugel and I wouldn't call it deep, and I think it's fine.
However, since I have zero experience going really deep as described here and yet several of you say it works well, what would you recommend that would not be extreme, yet deeper? First step to try? Any dealers in the New York City area who might have something to try? [Small morse, later Kanstul 1525]
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Matt Finley https://mattfinley.bandcamp.com/releases
Kanstul 1525 flugel with French taper, Shires Bb Destino Med & C trumpets, Schilke XA1 cornet, Schagerl rotary, Schilke P5-4 picc, Yamaha soprano sax, Powell flute. Sanborn GR66MS & Touvron-D. |
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drmayne
Regular Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Posts: 22
Location: seattle
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:41 am Post subject: |
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| Riojazz wrote: | Thanks for the good info. I'm not familiar with this concept; I play a stock GR 66 Flugel and I wouldn't call it deep, and I think it's fine.
However, since I have zero experience going really deep as described here and yet several of you say it works well, what would you recommend that would not be extreme, yet deeper? First step to try? Any dealers in the New York City area who might have something to try? [Small morse, later Kanstul 1525] |
I use a GR 67FL as well for what it is worth. Definitely not deep, even the 67FL*** doesn't come close.
I'm sorry to say I'm not aware of any other mouthpieces, aside from Mark Curry's FLX, that comes even close. The Xtreme is 1.25" deep, with a very large #1 throat size as well. It is in a league of it's own as far as I know - having tried other deep mouthpieces, there just isn't any comparison that I'm aware of. It is very counter intuitive that this would even work. Also, I actually have as much or more range on the Xtreme than I do on the GR67FL (though it doesn't slot as well) - which I can't say for other deep cup flugel mp's I've tried. The sound is very different than the GR67FL - it forces one to play a certain way that sounds wonderful.
Perhaps someone else knows of something that approaches this legendary piece... |
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dershem
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Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 1887
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2024 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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I have the Flip Oakes Extreme (Hi, Flip!!) and it's wonderful for combo work and solos, but does not blend well with a section in a big band (unless everyone is playing them). The inner contour is like a French Horn mouthpiece, which adds to that wonderful rich sound. I have to pull my tuning slide way in when I use it, but it's worth it.
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Marcinkiewicz Mic G. trumpet, Custom Marcinkiewicz mpc. (Among others)
Marcinkiewicz Rembrandt flugel, Benge 8Z cornet, King 2B, Bach 36, Benge 190, Getzen 3062... many more. All Marc. mouthpieces. |
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