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Bb or C Professional Grade Trumpet


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Which Trumpet
Bb Trumpet
88%
 88%  [ 44 ]
C Trumpet
10%
 10%  [ 5 ]
Bb/C combination
2%
 2%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 50

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-iii-(
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:59 pm    Post subject: Bb or C Professional Grade Trumpet Reply with quote

I am currently studying with two differnet teachers. One I see every week, while the other I see about once a month. Both teachers think I need a professional level trumpet. But one teacher says to get a Bb, while the other says to get a C. (The teacher that says Bb also said it is up to me but he thinks Bb trumpets are more often expected for college level playin than C trumpets). I am an orchestral trumpeter and if I do non-orchestral playing it is only to enrich my repotoire, and I soon return to orchestral playing. I am leaning towards a C trumpet because I am and orchestral player and all of my (past) teachers that play in orchestras play on their C trumpets. My parents are leaning toward a Bb trumpet. What do you recommend.

PS. I currently am playing a Intermediate Bb
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oldblow
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you plan to continue study under two masters, and wish to keep both of them happy, you might consider the Kanstul 1410 Bb/C combo. Shofarguy has a couple of extended posts about it, and the Kanstul site has pictures.

Some of the real players on here can give you good advice, but I think that one question you are going to get immediately is this one: What are you playing right now? Do you already have a C? Do you play a Bb and transpose?
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Lawler Bb
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get a "pro" Bb first, or, buy both. If you buy both, you can get two quality used instruments now for the price (or less than the price) of one new pro instrument. There's no time like the present for buying used instruments at a good price.
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crzytptman
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted Bb because you've only been playing 4 yrs and you practice 1.5 hours a day.
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connicalman
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last time you asked this question it generated a load of excellent advice. And questions, too. Do everyone a favor. Reveal the level at which you play.

For example, my niece plays flute. She does well but flute is not her main focus. Thus freshman year of high school is too early for her to tackle a piccolo.

Likewise, unless trumpet is your focus, such as you're headed to college for certain to play trumpet, or unless you're already a trained musician on piano or such, I maintain that the Kanstul 1410 suggested by Shofarguy, or the Jupiter 604 C, is a fair compromise.

The flute player will get her picc prior to band camp next summer. She needs one year of high school level first. Her younger brother has a good ear, and has learned to use 'em, a tuner, and a trio of rubber O-rings to get the valve slides in the correct spots for Bb use on his Jupiter C. FYI, the Kanstul comes with 2 full sets for C & Bb.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, you did say "professional". Look @ TH marketplace. There's a Bach C with the Bb slides. End of post? Go get 'em, Tigger!
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royjohn
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:47 pm    Post subject: Bb or C professional grade trumpet Reply with quote

Hi -iii-(,

I think we hashed this over pretty good on the other thread you started, where you asked virtually the same question. Are you doing a poll hoping that people will agree with you rather than your parents, so you can wave it in their face? As with most questions, the answer is not so simple.

As one respondent has already indicated, we need to know what you are playing on right now. We also need to know what your budget is. I am assuming that you plan to go to college and study trumpet, but haven't applied yet. If you had applied, your best course would be to ask the trumpet profs where you might go what they would recommend.

I already responded to your last thread with some actual suggestions, and, if you followed my advice, you could get a Bb and a C for what you are probably going to end up paying for one of them. However, I'll give you another answer . . . . buy both. It is obvious you really want to buy a C and that is where your heart is. So buy one and then you'll see after a while (either before or after you buy) if you've got a C that will work for you. When you get to college, you are probably going to find that you just cannot do it all with a C trumpet. You will have more to do than just play in an orchestra, and quintet or band or whatever, and sometimes even orchestra parts are going to require a Bb. If your current Bb doesn't work for that, then you will need a new one. [We already told you this in the last thread, are you listening?]

If you are careful, you can get both a decent Bb and a decent C for about $2000. It's even possible that your current Bb could be cut down to C and tweaked to be a nice starter C (or even a great forever C) for about $600 [Bill Jones does this with suitable candidate horns and produces great C's . . . . he studied with Vacchiano and knows what orchestral players need]. Or, you can find a decent Bach Strad Bb and a Bach C or similar horns for about $2000 to $2500. If you are really serious about the trumpet and going to school for it, consider it part of your educational expenses. If you think you are going to be an orchestral player, you need to get a C and start bashing your brains out trying to learn to play one in perfect tune. Get Vacchiano's book and start learning to transpose everything into everything else, which is what real orchestral players need to know.

Now your next thread is "What Orchestral C trumpet do you recommend?" You need to do a lot of research on the 239 and the 25-0, etc., etc., and play a bunch of horns. If there isn't somewhere nearby that you can try a bunch of them, factor in the transportation to Dillon's so you can try C's for two or three days until things start to become clear to you. Maybe one of the horns will whisper in your ear, "It's me, stupid, you can't go home without me . . " and you will buy it and we can all go on to the next thread, which is "Problems learning to play the C trumpet."
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Bb or C Professional Grade Trumpet Reply with quote

-iii-( wrote:
The teacher that says Bb also said it is up to me but he thinks Bb trumpets are more often expected for college level playin than C trumpets).

It is. In college you WILL being playing in a variety of ensembles - not just orchestra - Brass Ensembles, Brass Quintets, Jazz Band, Wind Band, Concert Band, heck even marching band or pep band. Except for orchestra, a Bb is expected. You may think that you're a "orchestra" player, but even principal players in major orchestras play in other ensembles. Don't get so narrowly focused.

A few questions...

What's your current horn?
How are you at transposing?
Have you spend much or any time on a C trumpet?

If you buy C trumpet are playing in any other group (or even orchestra - at times), you'll run into a lot of Bb Trumpet music. Actually almost entirely Bb music. So, be really good at transposing Bb music on your C trumpet.

I'll pass on a few other points.

- Finding a good Bb Trumpet is easy. Well, fairly easy.
- Playing Bb Trumpet is fairly easy - as far as trumpets go. Trumpet is hard, but Bb is probably the easiest of the lot.
- Finding a good C Trumpet is hard. Finding one that you enjoy playing and suits you? Even harder. Figuring out what suits you when you've not played one a lot? Also hard. A chicken and egg problem.
- Playing C Trumpet is harder. It takes time to figure it out. It can be a struggle. This could be an argument in favor of playing it as often as possible.

The best idea is to get a good, affordable Bb, in my opinion. They're easier to find and versatile. In fact, one of the great bargains of the music world is a used professional Bb trumpet. New, it was $2500 or something. Used? Well, depending on how desirable the make and model is (which is not the same as how it plays - far more imporatant) it can be between $600-1200. Money well spent. Used Bach? Tons of those. Used Yamaha? Available at very affordable prices. That's not even delving into the world of great vintage horns.

If you look at C's, do the same thing. Think used. Actually, for a C, definitely think used. There's always a ton of used Bach 229/25H's bought by often eager young students or enthusiastic amateurs that end up in closets and eventually craigslist or Ebay once they realize that it's not that easy a beast to deal with. Used Yamahas are also a great bargain. Chances are you'll eventually end up selling it - either to pay for a better one or for some other reason. That's all the more reason to not sink $2-3K in a horn that you'll probably won't keep forever. When you get a used C, someone else has already eaten the depreciation in value. Why be that guy?

So, what I'd do is buy a new or used Bb and look around for a decent used C trumpet at some point.

connicalman wrote:
Ah, you did say "professional". Look @ TH marketplace. There's a Bach C with the Bb slides. End of post? Go get 'em, Tigger!

I haven't played the new Kanstul Bb/C combo horn, but Bach C trumpets play fairly terriblely in Bb with the Bb slides. Almost universally. The Bb slides are an accessory that sound neat and fun, but in reality almost never gets used - for good reason.
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J_Mase
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're in high school. C trumpet is only going to do you a service while sitting in an orchestra. As I'm sure you do more than that (but likely falsely identify yourself as an "orchestral" player), I'd recommend the Bb. You can still play the bulk (if not all) your orchestral literature on Bb. I do this, actually.

Bb is applicable to wind band, marching band, jazz band, and any oddball stuff you do outside school. A C trumpet will work at school, in orchestra, and sit in the case the rest of the time. I've seen some people train themselves to play C by using it everywhere (like jazz band, etc), but at the risk of you picking out a dud of a horn, since you're not the most experienced player, I'd side with Bb. C trumpet also poses intonation issues you may not be able to cope with at this stage of your playing. You'll find yourself playing some notes flat, while the player next to you is a little high on the pitch. This is going to mean needless work for you, and questions from your band director.

Sometimes, you really just don't need to own a horn. The last time I played D/Eb was maybe my first year of college. I play piccolo now and again, since I'm (for some reason) good at it, and make money off wedding gigs; but past that, I just play Bb for everything. I ended up selling my C trumpet a few years ago, since I never used the thing, and I hated how it played.

It's usually unwise to buy more keys of trumpets, if you haven't reached a good level of mastery on the ones you've got. Since you appear to have asked this same question before, and just want people to back you up in buying a C trumpet, I'll just state very simply in text you can't miss (as you may blow off everything I wrote so far)...

Buy a Bb.
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Jerry
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bb.

Let your college teacher guide you in your C-trumpet purchase.
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J_Mase wrote:
You can still play the bulk (if not all) your orchestral literature on Bb. I do this, actually.

Me too. I'm an orchestral player and the last time I used a C trumpet regularly (more than once a year) was over a decade ago. I haven't even played one for about 5 years, maybe 7. Well, other than the testing room at music stores and ITG.

Why? I like how my Bb plays. It sounds great and plays great. End of story.
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royjohn
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:51 pm    Post subject: Bb or C Professional Grade Trumpet? Reply with quote

In what orchestras and what rep are you guys playing all on your Bb trumpets? Not doubting you, just interested in what situations you are in that this works for.
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irith
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You made the exact same thread already. Not to be mean, but it seems like we didn't give you the answer (read: C trumpet) that you wanted, so you gave it another shot.

I firmly believe that Bb would be the universal recommendation from reputable teachers, save for a select few outliers.

Bb is played for everything, and there are a lot more good ones out there. C is used pretty much only for orchestral, and it's hard to find a good one. It's damn near impossible to do so when you don't have much experience on one.

If you want a C, buy used- you'll probably want to switch later on. A used Bb can be a good idea too, but you'll have a much easier time picking a good Bb, and thus it could be yours for the rest of your life.

My advice? Play whatever Bb before you buy it, whether used or new. There are a ton of options, but you probably want to stick with Bach and Yamaha if you want to go into orchestral playing. Just the way things are.

Get a used C, whether it's now or later. Just get any pro model Bach or Yamaha, and don't spend more than $1500 or so. You can learn the quirks on that, then find your "dream" horn later on when you actually know what you're looking for.

Bb takes precedence over a C, no matter what.
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cb3
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:32 pm    Post subject: ok Reply with quote

I don't understand why you are asking the exact same thing again within days of the previous post when many people gave you advice and if you wanted more you could have simply revived the same post. Anyway, my answer is the same as is your post, copied and pasted;
"Need more info. For example; How far are you from going to college? If your finances are limited I would contact EVERY college I'm applying to and ask the trumpet teacher what they suggest in your situation. Your parents will most likely respect the consensus IF you are planning on being a music major. Otherwise, get a used one of each for the combined price of a new version of either one separately."
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Bb or C Professional Grade Trumpet Reply with quote

-iii-( wrote:
I am leaning towards a C trumpet because I am and orchestral player and all of my (past) teachers that play in orchestras play on their C trumpets.

But, did they at your age and level? Almost certainly not.
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Brian Moon
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't have a pro Bb?
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-iii-(
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

J_Mase wrote:
You're in high school. C trumpet is only going to do you a service while sitting in an orchestra. As I'm sure you do more than that (but likely falsely identify yourself as an "orchestral" player), I'd recommend the Bb. You can still play the bulk (if not all) your orchestral literature on Bb. I do this, actually.

Bb is applicable to wind band, marching band, jazz band, and any oddball stuff you do outside school. A C trumpet will work at school, in orchestra, and sit in the case the rest of the time. I've seen some people train themselves to play C by using it everywhere (like jazz band, etc), but at the risk of you picking out a dud of a horn, since you're not the most experienced player, I'd side with Bb. C trumpet also poses intonation issues you may not be able to cope with at this stage of your playing. You'll find yourself playing some notes flat, while the player next to you is a little high on the pitch. This is going to mean needless work for you, and questions from your band director.

Sometimes, you really just don't need to own a horn. The last time I played D/Eb was maybe my first year of college. I play piccolo now and again, since I'm (for some reason) good at it, and make money off wedding gigs; but past that, I just play Bb for everything. I ended up selling my C trumpet a few years ago, since I never used the thing, and I hated how it played.

It's usually unwise to buy more keys of trumpets, if you haven't reached a good level of mastery on the ones you've got. Since you appear to have asked this same question before, and just want people to back you up in buying a C trumpet, I'll just state very simply in text you can't miss (as you may blow off everything I wrote so far)...

Buy a Bb.


I didnt start this thread just to try to convince my parents of getting a Bb. I am really open to what will be best for me, I hope it didnt seem like I was blowing off all the "get a Bb" comments. Im actually starting to lean towards a Bb. I only started this thread to add the poll option. I also sincerly appreciate everyones patience and advice for me.
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veery715
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

J_Mase wrote:
C trumpet also poses intonation issues you may not be able to cope with at this stage of your playing. You'll find yourself playing some notes flat, while the player next to you is a little high on the pitch. This is going to mean needless work for you, and questions from your band director.



-iii-(
The above says it all. From your questions it is readily apparent to me that you are not ready for a C trumpet. You can still have a lot of fun searching out and trying Bb trumpets - there are so many options and you will not be trying to test-play something you are totally unfamiliar with.

Get your self a new-to-you, used pro model Bb trumpet, move your current horn into marching/pep band use and as a backup. Spend your energy (now being used in speculation) in building your skills on Bb trumpet, sight reading, transposing, and practicing as much as you can manage. An hour and a half a day will need to give way to nearly (or at least) twice that much if you hope to play at a professional level someday.

The more you play your Bb the more your questions will answer themselves.
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thenick2000
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in a doctoral program and have been playing in orchestras for the last 6 or so years. I think my time is pretty evenly split between the two instruments when in the orchestra. Most pops gigs we use Bb's, most big orchestral works before the 20th century we use C trumpets. A lot of 20th century stuff we still use Bb, although it can go either way.

In college though, I think I play Bb a lot more. We use Bb's more often in quintet, all the jazz guys use Bb's, the Wind Symphony uses Bb's much more often, and I'd say probably 65%-70% of solo literature is written in Bb for us. It really comes down to preference when you're making a decision on which to use, but it becomes essential to have both later in college.

I vote for the Bb, simply because early in study we focus on etudes and solo literature, not necessarily orchestral rep.
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Maarten van Weverwijk
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Professional Bb first, then (depending on your "territory") consider the rest.

No disrespect meant, but first get your Bb playing 100% right before even thinking about picking up anything else. Jumping from an old intermediate Bb-tpt to a professional C-tpt will do more harm than good, as C-tpts can feel very quirky in the beginning...

MvW.


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