Dental problems...I need advice please!!

[adonnadon]

Hey yall! I’m hoping to get some insight from any trumpet players who have had dental issues because frankly, I’m really nervous about getting any major work done.

Here’s my story: It was always a dream of mine to play trumpet professionally…it is the LOVE of my life, as I’m sure it is most of yours reading this. I’ve been fortunate in my life to have had many wonderful trumpet experiences and studied with some fantastic teachers who believed in me and showed me the way to a very fulfilling trumpet career. In January 1999, I had the privilege of performing with the Dallas Symphony as an extra trumpet on Walton’s Belshazzar’s Feast in Dallas and then the following week in NYC at Carnegie Hall…a dream come true! (Here’s the icky part. Make sure you’re not eating as you read this!) Three weeks later, I was meeting a friend for lunch in downtown Ft. Worth to tell him all about the trip, show him the pictures, etc. when I tripped on a curb crossing the street, landing face down on the concrete sidewalk. The first thing I remember after falling was the intense pain in my jaw. I thought I had knocked out my lower teeth. When I turned over on my back, my friend had arrived with a look of horror on his face. I kept saying, “Are they gone? Are they gone?” asking about my teeth. He looked upset and said, “Kinda…” Next thing I remember is a paramedic hovering over me saying, “What’d ya do, bite off your lower lip?” Well….I’d been fairly calm until then. I think my friend wanted to punch him. He just glared at him and said, “She’s a professional trumpet player.” When everyone around moaned, “Ohhh, nooo!” then I knew things looked pretty bad. I said, “Did I really bite it off?” He scrunched up his face and said, “Kinda…”

Fast forward to the hospital portion of this gruesome story. I found out that I didn’t bite off my lower lip or lose my lower teeth, I lost a portion of my upper teeth. Turns out when I fell, I landed on my chin, forcing my lower lip up and out. The force of the fall made my mouth slam shut. With my overbite and the position of my lower lip, my upper front teeth cut through the lower lip completely (from the inside) and then broke off on the sidewalk. I had to get four layers of stitches on the lower lip. The doctor did a wonderful job stitching me up…there is only a small scar and minimal scar tissue!

A Dallas dentist recommended by area symphony players worked me into his schedule immediately the next day. I took in a picture to show what I used to look like and he very patiently applied bonding material where my teeth used to be. Over several visits, he braced six of my upper front teeth together with small pins and bonding material to give them stability while I healed. It is still not clear what exactly was wrong with my teeth. I got root canals on them but the pain was still there. I couldn’t even say the number “three” without excruciating pain…it was 7 months before I could even bite into soft white bread! Nothing showed up on the x-ray, but my dentist as well as an oral surgeon suggested I might have a hair-line fracture in the area just behind the two upper front teeth that wouldn’t show up on a regular x-ray, or that I might have damaged the nerves in that area. All I know is that it felt like my head was splitting open whenever I touched those teeth. It was months before I could get a mouthpiece back on my face, first because of the scar tissue on my lip, next because of the teeth. The strange thing is that there was intense pain when I touched the teeth on the bottom, but not as much when I touched them from the front…I could buzz my mouthpiece before I could bite into soft bread! They said it was probably because of the angle my teeth hit when I fell.

There IS a happy ending to this awful story! With my future in question, I went back to school and finished my degree and I’m now a certified music teacher in Texas! I’ve settled down, gotten married, hoping to start a family, and I’m finally playing again without teeth pain!! I don’t know what’s in my trumpet future, but I’m just thrilled to be able to do what I love to do!!

Now comes the next step (and my question for you trumpet players)…my teeth are still pinned and bonded together. It never fails that I end up with a small chip somewhere and have to go back to Dallas to get “re-bonded”. I’ve been playing church and wedding gigs here and there, and I’ve been really concerned that one of these days, the bonding may just come loose in the middle of something and leave me in a major mess with half of a tooth! I want to get past this stupid teeth issue so that I can concentrate on my playing. I see no point in investing in lessons, and getting my hopes up for a come-back, only to have the bonding material chip or give way during something important. I want to get crowns so that I will have the same “teeth” up there for the rest of my life, but I’m so afraid it will change the shape of the playing “surface”…then it can’t be undone. My dentist (an angel disguised as a dentist!) says if we do crowns, he wants me to bring my horn to the appointment to play as he shapes those teeth. That gives me more confidence in it, but there’s just something very final about getting crowns.

After a very long story, I’m very interested in any thoughts or experiences anyone has had with getting crowns on the two upper front teeth. Are they as dependable as regular teeth? Sorry to be so long-winded if you’ve made it this far in this post, but I wanted you to know the history of what happened. Yes, I am the absolute clumsiest person on the face of the planet!! For those of you who know me, you know I’ve had more than my share of bicycle accidents, scooter accidents and now a WALKING accident! I remember people used to say I needed to stay off of anything with two wheels…maybe I should just stay HOME!!

Learn from my wacky experience…take care of yourself, get medical and dental insurance, and stay away from concrete sidewalks in downtown Ft. Worth!

Enjoy playing! That’s what it’s all about! Sometimes ya never know until it's taken away from ya! I welcome your input!

-Adonna Teat-Donovan

[Mr. Semman]

Adonna,

Dental pain is probably the worst pain ever suffered by a human. I am glad that you have recovered from your accident.

Although I have not had crowns placed on my upper incisors, I have had two crowns on molars, which have seen a lot of action with no misshaps.

However, the first crown was implaced in 1970, and about fifteen years ago, it came loose while I was eating. Yup, I swallowed it. It really sucks knowing that a $400 tooth is lying in my septic tank. Thankfully, the dentist use a much stronger bonding material now then in 1970.

Have no fears.

Gary
_________________
ZeuS Olympus ZTR1000
ZeuS Guarenius ZTR 900
Aegis F2
Bach 5C
Bach 3C
BAA Bugler
________________________________________
"Let your words be soft and sweet. You never know when you will have to eat them!"

[trickg]

I can't imagine the apprehension that you must have about this, and I hope and pray that all works out for the best. I have often wondered about this subject too, but for a different reason - I'm a grinder, and over the years, I have worn my teeth down quite a bit, especially my upper and lower incisors, and I know that at some point in the future, I'm probably going to have to have those teeth capped and reshaped. (I'm only 34 - imagine what they will be in another 10-20 years!)

The one good piece of information that I can pass along relates to Maynard Ferguson. While he's not an orchestral player, his claim to fame is that of being a powerful player with great range and endurance, and I know that at some point in the past, (late 60s, early 70s?) he had crown/caps put on his front teeth. (It sticks in my mind that he had his new choppers by the time Chameleon came out in 1974.) The late Harry James also had some extensive dental work done - his false front teeth were screwed directly into his skull and jawbone.

You might actually get lucky and wind up playing better than before, especially since you have such an understanding dentist who is willing to work with you to get things right. It would be interesting if your dental work ends up being an improvement over your natural teeth.

Keep us posted on this - your story is going to be valuable information for all of us because more than likely, as long as we are unable to put down this hunk of brass, we are going to be faced with dental work of some type in our playing careers.
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

[Bob Stevenson]

I had both upper front teeth capped about 18 months ago....

In my case the problem was just the passage of time and the deterioration of my teeth until the day came when I realised my life long cornet passion and brass band experience of nearly 40 years would soon be over! I put off the work as I had always had an excellent pure tone from a boy and could not think of having a different sound. My saving grace was the fact that in recent years I have become a teacher and instructor of young miltary musicians and also older cornet players,...the thought of not being able to demonstrate techniques to them made me realise it was nearly time to hang up the cornets for good,.....good young players will not take criticism and advice form someone who cannot outplay them!.....or at least be their equal. For their part, my young friends were all appalled when I told them it was nearly over and that I was taking up flower arranging instead (joke!) It was their shocked looks more than anything which decided me to try to see if anything could be done for my teeth while keeping a reasonable sound,...I did'nt expect it to ever be the same as normal.

The dentist I eventually chose was/is very experienced, and about the same age as myself with a kind humor. Right from the first time he looked into my mouth he was convinced that if I could make a decent sound with "...those two little bits of rotten teeth..." then I would sound "...bloody fantastic.." with the help of some "....new kit..." Personally, I was less than convinced!

The first thing to sort out was whether or not to duplicate the existing 'set' of my own teeth, or to go for a new shape and set. My existing teeth were not both exactly in the same plane as the left one was slightly turned inwards. Eventually, I was persuaded that a pair of teeth "..designed for the job.." would be at least as good as the originals. The dentist and i spent a lot of time measuring mpc's/teeth and going over the playing process in fairly minute detail as best as we could.

Before the fatal day itself, the dentist carried out root canals and prepared the old teeth with some temporary crowns leaving the outside of the originals untouched so I could play as normal,....while the final crowns were being made. All this work was more or less painless, despite what i had been led to believe about root canals. The pain killing injections into the pallate just behind the teeth is the worst part as it stings for a few moments enough to make ones eyes water!......but contrary t what you may have been told there is no pain while the work is carried out. The work on this day took about one and a quarter hours in all and the pain killing injections needed topping up 3 times!

About 10 days later came the time I had been dreading for years,....both front teeth were largely removed and the roots prepared with metal mountings, then the new crowns were bonded onto these. it felt very different to my old teeth but a lot of this new sensation was put down to the fact that the new crowns were normal sized teeth unlike the old originals which were badly disfigured and eroded.

I was not able, or recommended, to play for 3 days. Then on the fourth day, with a lot of trepidation, I got out the cornet and got to grips with the new 'me'. It was drastically different to my 'own' teeth but the good news was that I could at least play after a fashion!.....nor was the sound bad!...but VERY differnt to my old sound being much brighter with almost none of my 'trademark' sweetness or dynamics control. However, the really big difference was in the timing of articulation and attack as I had unwitingly been adjusting for the steady reduction in the size of my old teeth and was now back to a 'normal' tooth length and width.....VERY difficult to analyse and counter for! The next problem was that the high register was simply missing!.....up to F on the stave OK but just no G or higher..like someone just turned off the sound!...VERY weird!

One by one I managed to sort out the problems,....the high register started to come back and it was soon obvious that I needed a very much larger mpc. Eventually, I went from a Denis Wick 5 which i had played for 30 years, to a DW3 and now to a DW2. The other members of my brass band (i am the principal cornet ) were fantastic in their help and support and all wanted to know and follow the stages in the 're-build' of my teeth and embouchure.

Essentially, I have got back my sound but it was a fairly long haul to get there. Last September I had my first ever lesson from Roddy Lewis and he was able to quickly determine that I needed to close up my lip set. With the help of his excercises whcih he prescribed for me I have been able to get back most of my richness into the sound along with excellent dynamic control. Now, nearly 18 months later, I can even see certain improvements To the way I play and the whole process has tought me a lot about playing and technique which I have made use of with my students.

To be quite truthful, I don't feel that I have got back all of my tone yet. However, in some ways the sound I have now is more versatile and flexible and higher register is greatly improved in terms of sound qualityl....its still early days!!

Hope some of this helps!

[dlyren]

Hey Adonna,

That is a horrible story. I read the post for quite a while, until I realized it was you! I'm so sorry!

I have no experience with this sort of thing. But I think if it was me, I would get the crowns - mostly for some peace of mind. If you have a dentist that is willing to work closely with you - do it. Otherwise, you'll always worry every time you pick up the horn that a tooth will chip on a gig. With crowns you won't have to worry and I expect that if there are differences in the "feel" of your embouchure that you will learn to work around it. As talented as you are, you will get it done.

That's my two cents

Del

[adonnadon]

To crown or not to crown...that is the question....

Thanks so much for your input on this, everyone!! I'm starting to get more confidence in my decision to do the crowns. I went for a cleaning yesterday and talked extensively with my dentist about this. We'll probably get the procedure started soon.........(yikes!)

I appreciate your encouragement, Del! You may not remember, but I had a "gravity problem" at ASU too. This accident happened at the worst possible time...I had just lost Mom to cancer 4 months earlier. It was like losing two of my very best friends at the same time. Life seemed pretty "dark" for several months. But like I said earlier, there IS a happy ending! Life is great!

Thanks again everyone! I'll keep yall posted on the progress!
-Adonna

[dlyren]

I do remember. Gravity is definitely not your friend.

Keep us posted on your progress.

[adonnadon]

Patrick,

I used to clamp my teeth a long time ago and my dentist fitted me with a "Night Gard"...they are expensive (if I remember correctly) but it protected my teeth. Since then I have reduced my stress level and stopped using it. I haven't had a problem so far...course, we haven't started a family yet! I may go back to using one if we have kids, especially when they become teenagers!

Night Gards are available over the counter I think, but it is well worth the money to go to the dentist and get one molded to your teeth.

Good luck!
-Adonna

[trickg]

Donna, I'm curious to know how your dental work went - all the more curious because with my front teeth ground to where they are, I may have to explore getting crowns on about 6 of them sooner rather than later.
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

[shastastan]

Hi Patrick and Adonna. I just noticed the dates on these posts. I wish I had read these and posted sooner. I have crowns on a number of teeth, both front and molars, and some are attached with bridges also. Almost all of these were done before my comeback last Dec... I did have a couple this year and didn't even think about what it would do to my playing--but that's probably because I'm a rookie. Another reason was that they would be the same as what I already had. Anyway, I certainly didn't have them when I quit at age 15. Sure doesn't seem to have made any difference and I'm sure that you can learn to adjust without any major problems. Not only do they have the impressions, they have 3d computer graphics for viewing and shaping. Technology has come a long way in recent years.

Your teeth are very important to your overall health. You have to care for them and keep them "maintained". Do you know they have implants now? They cost around $1300 each! I think that if the holes/gaps stay filled with something--be it a tooth, crown, etc.--your playing adjustment won't be all that bad.

Patrick, you need to follow Adonna's advice and get that anti-grinding device. I used to grind my teeth also and, as Adonna points out, stress was the major cause. That device wasn't invented then either. I started running 5 miles a day, at age 47. That took care of the stress pretty well.

Hang in there guys and let us know how things are tooting along.

Stan

[trickg]

Stan, I've got a very well made, very expensive night guard....that I rarely use!

It looks like I need to start using it again to try to prevent further damage.
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

[drincredible313]

Post removed

[shastastan]

Well, Patrick, you might find that the night gard is easier than running 3 miles up hill

Thanks for jumping in Joe. I'm not a dentist but I have a friend that is. He always shows me all the neat new tech stuff that he gets. The equipment ain't cheap and neither are a lot of procedures.

Stan

[d5968]

Hi adonna, All of my teeth are crowned. I lost my lower front teeth, I had implants and bridges and my mpc fits better than it ever has. My surgeon was knowlegeable about my interest in music and applied his skills accordingly. Just find the right one to do the work -you will be glad you did.
_________________
Courtois Flugel
'36 NY bach 26-62
Destino-USA #2
Flip Oakes Cornet (Wild Thing)
Calicchio1S/9L

[Chaser]

I think the human body can adapt to most anything.
I played lead trumpet though high school and college. I practiced alot and put alot of time in working on my playing.

After college, I quit playing for awhile (about 10 years) and picked it back up in 2002. In 2001, I was in an accident and broke off one of my front top teeth and had several cracks in the other that went all the way through the teeth. My dentist ground down the two teeth on either side of where my front teeth used to be (after he pulled the remaining pieces) and installed a permanent bridge. A year later when I got the bug to pick the horn back up, it was with much trepidation. Bottom line, within a few months, I had everything I used to have AND an added half octave on my range. The new sensation of the different teeth felt wierd, but with a few weeks practice felt normal. After three years, the only issue I have is finding time to practice consistently. Best of luck to you!
As an aside, I am 99% positive that Maynard Ferguson has one or both top, front teeth capped and they have been for about 15 to 20 years. Seems to work out OK for him.

[maeissin]

Well, like many of you, I've had extensive dental work. As a kid, I had very crooked teeth -- but, for a variety of reasons, I wasn't able to have braces, so I learned to play with my strange choppers. (My 10 yr-old son is now learning to play with exactly the same strange configuration).

Anyway, when I was seventeen, a car accident crushed my upper jaw and I lost all my upper front teeth and it completely rearranged my lower teeth. The important thing, originally was to mend.

It too two years for the jaw to completely knit and for my new (now straight) teeth to be installed (bridgework). By the time I could start playing, again, I had to start over. Then, while away at college, my apartment was robbed and my horn, mutes, mouthpieces, etc., were all stolen and I simply walked away from the horn (after two years without being able to play, to lose the horn, it was sort of a karmic/destiny thing -- this was the seventies, okay?).

A couple of months ago, my son (5th grade) told me he wanted to "take band" and wanted to play trumpet. I got him an entry level horn and started working with him. I discovered that (although weak and with little range and a thin tone) I could actually play -- a bit.

Off to e-bay to locate my old 1970's era high-end yammy (found one) and then the quest to rebuild my stash of mutes, mouthpieces, etc... I just ordered an inexpensive PicTmpt (always wanted one -- next major purchase will be a flugel).

So, long story short. I've been working (almost) daily for 6 weeks. 30+ years ago, before the accident, I was very good. Now, I'm 49 yrs old and starting (almost from scratch). I've managed to build my range back to about 2.5 octaves (although I lose the top end from fatigue, after about 35-40 minutes -- so I've got to work on that) and AT TIMES, my tone is really quite nice. I've got a LONG WAY to go, but I'll never put it down, again.

One side note -- Al Hirt lost his two front teeth from a flying brick at mardi gras, in the mid-70's. His dentist fixed it and he was back playing in no time.

My problem, was the broken jaw and the changes in the shape of my teete (my dentist wouldn't put the new bridges in crooked).
_________________
me


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1972 Yamaha 734
1950s Olds Ambassador Cornet
1930s Pan American Baritone
1930s Pan American Mellophone
Jean Baptise Soprano Trombone

[d5968]

first I am glad you picked it back up . Don't overshadow your son, please. Sorry I am short, but tthis cold is killing me
_________________
Courtois Flugel
'36 NY bach 26-62
Destino-USA #2
Flip Oakes Cornet (Wild Thing)
Calicchio1S/9L

[maeissin]