Marching band and chops

[SchilkePlayer]

I just got done with a week of highschool marching band camp where I played high and loud alot. Today when I went to practice, my attacks were terrible, my range was forced, and my tone was airy. It was like I needed more air that usual to do any thing and my chops just weren't responding. Is this from marching band, or something else? any suggestions? Thanks

[isabelle]

Marching band is deffinately not the greatest for your chops. It forces you to use alot of pressure on your lips in order to play loud and high for a long period of time. I was in marching band all throughout high school, and at first it would wear me out to the point that I couldn't practice effectively outside of marching band rehearsals. The reason your tone sounds airy and forced, is that your chops are really exhausted (even though they might not feel exhausted). On your days off of marching practice, do really slow and relaxed practices. Long tones and pedal tone exercises are really good to do. It was just your first week of marching band, so you really just need to give it time. It takes awile for your chops to adjust, and they will eventually strengthen. As for now, just take it a bit easier when you practice on your own.
-Isabelle

[chrislb98]

That's what marching band will do to you. You need to get your chops focused, try playing soft Clarke exercises in the middle and lower registers or take a few days off. In fact definitely take at least 1 day off if you haven't allready, those long weeks of marching band camp really beat you up. Try doing some mouthpiece buzzing too, just buzz along with the radio while you're driving or something.

[ByroTrumpet]

Don't play so loud that you are spreading your embochure. You are spreading your apeture apart which will contribute to your airy sound and unfocused attacks. marching band will only be bad for you if you do not use your air wisely. Let the mouthpiece off the chops a little more and compensate for that with more air. Don't forget to warm up and warm down properly as well. And let me say this again, don't play so loud that you spread your embochure and blow your apeture apart. Any "decent" instructor (even marching band) would tell you to not to play past your limits. But then again, volume is not a bad thing, just don't kill yourself to attain it.

Just work on making your trumpet playing more efficient with using your air properly and not using so much of your "chops".

So instead of marching band forcing you to use more pressure and thrash yourself, use marching band as a reason to force yourself to play with less pressure and focus more on air and it will increase your endurance and air support by a lot and can be very beneficial to your playing in general. oh and when you are at home practicing, make sure you practice a lot of soft stuff, it will help keep your apeture focused.

hope it helps!
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[caedes]

I was lucky enough to go to a high school which didn't really think marching band was very important. We would just go to football games and play in the stands with a nice tone. We'd only go to one parade and do one field show... it was nice because we could focus on wind-ensemble practice year-round.

Then when I got to college it was totally different. Band camp at Tennessee is 10 hour days of playing and marching for 7 days right before the semester starts (and ensemble auditions are held). My trick to getting through it was to play second trumpet.

So I guess if you can't change schools and you have to play first part then the only thing left is to learn how to play loud and high CORRECTLY (a non-trivial task I know). Good luck.

[DaveH]

Well.....all I can say is that a lot must have changed since I was in marching band in high school!
Back then,the 1st or lead trumpet parts weren't all that high because most high school trumpet players couldn't play much outside the staff. The highest notes were usually not beyond G(top of the staff) or A (one line above the staff). High C(two lines above the staff was very rare). An occasional Bb or B. It sounds like you all are trying to playing parts that are written to showcase the "scream" range of the trumpet section in something like the Maynard Ferguson band? Maybe poor choices of arrangements,especially for the situation? The directors should be picking arrangements that will make the band sound good and if they are too hard or unplayable,well....there goes the quality of sound.
Many young players in marching bands overblow a lot and blast, which will have terrible effects on the sensivity of the embouchure. Blasting will never take the place of a full, centered sound, and besides, it sounds TERRIBLE. No control,no intonation, no focus,poor articulation,etc.,etc.,etc,.
What do the directors think of this? It certainly doesn't sound good and I don't understand why it is allowed. Directors should be discouraging this type of playing,even ouside on a football field. I played in marching band in high school(1966-1969,yes,a long time ago).My father was the high school band director and would have never tolerated blasting players. It builds bad habits and sounds BAD. Control was always required and people who tried to blast got in big TROUBLE with the directors. We were taught to obtain good sound with projection out of doors without blasting.
These are some of the problems in marching bands that tend to give them a bad reputation sometimes.
There are three steps to solve the marching band syndrome(read as " blown out lip" syndrome):
1)Take a few days off to rest with no playing at all, then,
2)Ease back in with some SOFT and EASY warm ups,"horseflapping" the lips,gentle buzzing,etc. Maybe some pedal tones also,then,
3)SOFTLY and GENTLY begin to play within the staff. Chromatic scales,intervals,etc.
And stop overblowing! This can cause long term problems. There is no reason to play louder than you can control. The key word is CONTROL. Work for a focused,centered sound and your flexibility,tone, and control will return.
Good luck.

[Nicholas Dyson]

That's the second time DaveH has posted this information, and I for one am glad he did!

One thing to add:
It's been my experience that playing with a nice, centered sound, albeit FULL, is projected better than the big nasty one.

That's a good thing, as you would actually WANT to project a nice sound, and you WOULDN'T want that nasty overblown sound projected.

Playing the trumpet at a full volume (I like the word full, instead of loud, since the word 'loud' is usually preceded by the word 'too') is something that needs to be practiced, it's not JUST a matter of blowing more air, or faster air. Your chops have to learn to make the appropriate adjustments to keep things in control. One thing that works for me... try playing everything at all volume levels. Refining that kind of control in all volumes, in all registers is something that I would think is desirable for all. I'm not 'all' though, so can't speak to that...

Hope this helps!
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[DaveH]

If you all will be patient with me for just another comment on the marching band thing-it seems to me that there have been some changes in the arrangements and types of songs that are often used in marching band over the last,say,20-25 years or so.
Let's go back to the sixties for a starting point.I can recall that my father relied on things like college "fight" songs(Across the Field,Go Northwestern,Down the Field,etc.),Patriotic songs(You're A Grand Old Flag,etc.),Military Marches(John Philip Sousa type stuff),and sometimes,well-known show tunes from Broadway musicals,standards,etc. These songs tended to "fit" the instrumentation of the marching band and were often written with that type of ensemble in mind.As a result, they sounded good and took advantage of the capabilities and instrumentation of the marching band. These were often rousing,up-tempo songs,and every instrument in the band had a necessary and meaningful part to play,which helped give the band its "punch" and projection.
More recently,marching band arrangements have increased in the area of trying to put popular Rock,R&B, or Country songs of the times into marching band format. To me,this never works very well and usually sounds "uncomfortable" to say the least.
I have often heard that this is an attempt to generate interest among the young people who make up marching bands - by allowing them to be playing songs that they know and may like from the popular radio/videos,etc.
Those songs were not conceived to take advantage of or be played effectively by the instrumentation of a marching band. Often there isn't much structure to the song apart from great reliance on drums,bass and guitar,with little in the way of a quality melody.
I'm not knocking pop music here at all - I just don't think it is usually played well by a marching band. And that is usually,IMO, because there are few of these songs that can be arranged well for marching band. They were never intended for that purpose and usually the arrangements sound accordingly.
I have played some of those arrangements and I could always tell the difference between those kinds of arrangements and the songs that were designed to be played by a band instrumentation.
Give me Sousa or some college "fight" songs any day - they showcase the marching band they way it was intended to be and sound.
Just my opinions........

[ This Message was edited by: DaveH on 2002-08-06 09:18 ]

[ This Message was edited by: DaveH on 2002-08-06 09:19 ]

[ This Message was edited by: DaveH on 2002-08-06 09:22 ]

[trickg]

What always works for me when I want to regain some control over my playing after playing blaringly loud is to do play a lot of soft articulation exercises, mainly single tongued and to do some soft breath attacks. That will get everything centered and focused in no time.
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[trjeam]

I don't know but all of those expiriences only made me stronger in the long run.
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[limits_unknown]

"Back then,the 1st or lead trumpet parts weren't all that high because most high school trumpet players couldn't play much outside the staff. The highest notes were usually not beyond G(top of the staff) or A (one line above the staff). High C(two lines above the staff was very rare). An occasional Bb or B. It sounds like you all are trying to playing parts that are written to showcase the "scream" range of the trumpet section in something like the Maynard Ferguson band?"

lol. There's a C# several Cs and Bs in our show, and one B with a shake. Yes, this is highschool marching band! Our music arranger is a little crazy. lol.

ok, this was a little off topic, but I had to brag for the whole section.

I forgot to mention the E at the end, and several Ds in Ran Kan Kan.

[ This Message was edited by: limits_unknown on 2002-08-08 23:08 ]

[ This Message was edited by: limits_unknown on 2002-08-10 00:29 ]

[mafields627]

In my high school band, the lead trumpets topped out at high D. And that wasn't written vary often. I've seen high school shows with trumpets playing E and above. Whether that's written or not, I don't know.

Taking stuff up is kinda like Jello, there's always room for more.
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[Da`Lip]

I'm an asst. section leader in a black college marching band, where the strive to show up and show out usually leads to arrangements that feature some high range trumpet parts (first parts are often above the the staff, with second and third parts not too far below), and a few actually have many designated screamers that perform above high C. Fortunately our director is more of a show off with musicality and precision rather than high and loud, so we're not battered too much...

In my years in the band I've come to realize that only one thing can preserve your chops: RELAXATION. Believe it or not, a lot of people lose the ability to play and project their sound (let alone play in the higher ranges) because they try too hard! The trick to playing in the extremes of volume and range is simply backing off. Back off on mouthpiece pressure and relax the entire body not involved in trumpet playing. Breathe in a deep, relaxed manner and do not use any isometric (muscle-on-muscle) tension in the upper body. For the higher range, simply bring the navel in slightly more toward the spine for each higher pitch. Don't force anything! To help with lip swelling (aside from the obvious "keep from pulling the mouthpiece in toward the face"), use a little bit of cocoa butter w/ vitamin E (NOT the lotion kind) a few times a day and it will help the tissue heal better... Just don't apply it before going outside because it will burn on the lips! Oh, and avoid lip balms with camphor or menthol as an ingredient (camphor, used in Carmex, will actually break down muscle tissue when absorbed and menthol has a numbing effect).

RELAX. :0) If we can play complex arrangements of popular music in the high range while high-stepping and dancing (yes, dancing!), and do so in tune and with good tone for extended periods of time, then backing off of the horn obviously has some merit to it!

[SHS_Trumpet]

[Goldenchops55]

Marching Band does weird things to my chops. After about a month of marching band, my chops seem to have no real limits. I can play as loud and high as I need to, without any real trouble, but a month after marching band is over, my endurance level starts to decline, why is this? I wish my chops would stay marching band-strong all year around.

[mafields627]

Think about how much you play in during a marching band show as compared to the average 10 minute concert piece(s). In marching band, the trumpets play about 75-85% of the time, excluding woodwind and percussion features. I would venture to say that in 10 minutes of concert playing, the trumpet would play closer to 60% of the time.

Enter the abstract theory: It's my theory that trumpet players in the past had stronger chops than players now. Why? Because in the past, the main literature was marches and orchestral transcriptions, both of which are more demanding than a lot of band lit that high school kids are playing now. Imagine being a lead trumpet and playing a concert of just marches. Maybe some of you military guys/old timers can weigh in and prove my theory correct/incorrect. Also, I believe that marches demand a lot more in terms of style than most high school bands play now.
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[DaveH]

I have played many of those so-called "old time" marches,etc., that you are probably referring to, in both marching and concert situations and, yes, many of those pieces are hard enough to play sitting down, let alone marching!
There were a lot of notes, articulations,etc., in a lot of those tunes. Lots of the military marches and what we used to call "circus" marches are rather challenging,from a technical viewpoint.
Compared to some of the modern fare that I have heard high school marching bands play, yes, I agree, many of those older standards are more challenging. Not always in range, but in other aspects of complexity - especially fingering, tonguing, and fast passages with lots of notes. Things like ROLLING THUNDER, CIRCUS BEE, STARS AND STRIPES FOREVER, many others of that kind. If you have played any of these, you'll know what I mean. It was a totally different kind of music than what is commonly heard today........

[trumpet1]

Marching band and chops.....

got hit by a guard....hit the bell and knocked the mouthpiece right into my lips....

it's split...gotta wait another couple of days....
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