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| How many of you smoke? |
| yes |
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11% |
[ 12 ] |
| no |
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68% |
[ 71 ] |
| i used to but i quit |
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12% |
[ 13 ] |
| i am mainly a social smoker |
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7% |
[ 8 ] |
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| Total Votes : 104 |
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Kazi
Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 210
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 Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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A long time ago, there was another thread on smoking or something, and it turned into a big argument between myself, Comno, and a handful of others, but it got decidedly heated..
but..
Now, I only smoke a cigar (never two, and no cigarettes) every once in a great while when at a party or a grillout or something. Eventually, I really thought about it, and while I enjoy it, theres no reason to enjoy it in excess.
EDIT: By the way...I plan on buying a reaaly nice one tomorrow for my 18th. |
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Comno6
Veteran Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 478
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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Yoder, wow dude. You apparently have some vendetta against society and stardized laws.
Then when the argument starts to go down hill, you decide to resort personal attacks. Yes that is very professional. People don't appreciate you insulting them and then throwing up your ideas that more than half the time have no real meaning, except what is 2 feet in front of you.
This is a forum for people to discuss issues and promote ideas, not to insult each other. Please if you would like to make your point, then do it with some professionialism.
Thank you
Chris
_________________
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trptStudent
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 2572
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| Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| PRogers wrote: | | Richiebee wrote: | | Yoder wrote: | | Richiebee wrote: | | Yoder wrote: |
Maybe if we had more liberal laws regarding marijuana people would not have to sneak around and do it. |
Such a simplistic approach. You really haven't thought about the possible consequences have you? |
 That is right, I never think of consequences!
What are the consequences? Heroin addicts?
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Death... injury... illness. No, not an exhaustive list, but enough to keep it illegal.
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Might as well outlaw tobacco, alcohol, automobiles, prescription drugs, pajamas, fast food, hot dogs, swimming pools, or any number of things by that logic (especially the first two)
Edit: sorry, I just saw that Yoder already addressed that. 
BTW, the only rule I pay much credence is the golden rule. I just so happen to also obey most laws of society by proxy, but the I keep the golden rule as often as possible. |
I'm not going to try and challenge your dogmatic beliefs, since I would think that if someone were to endorse the Golden Rule, then they must have some amount of religious faith. However, there is more than one situation where the Golden Rule doesn't hold.
I don't think you'd want a masochist to do to you what he wants done to him.
What rule would you live by if you were the last person on the planet?
What if someone asked you to do something that you would never want done to anyone, but you did it because you respected the wishes of the person who asked?
But I think that living by the Golden Rule is probably better than living by a lot of other things. |
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Yoder
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 2238
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| Comno6 wrote: | Yoder, wow dude. You apparently have some vendetta against society and stardized laws.
Then when the argument starts to go down hill, you decide to resort personal attacks. Yes that is very professional. People don't appreciate you insulting them and then throwing up your ideas that more than half the time have no real meaning, except what is 2 feet in front of you.
This is a forum for people to discuss issues and promote ideas, not to insult each other. Please if you would like to make your point, then do it with some professionialism.
Thank you
Chris |
Yea, I hate statism. I also hate dogma, fascists, government control, cockroaches, and unjust laws.
If my logic upsets others too bad. Doesn't it just suck when someone does not believe in what you believe in, or if someone thinks that norms or your society stink? Life is cruel!
I only insult social norms--an iconoclast I am.
Professionalism? Is that where you drop in out of nowhere and make innane remarks?
You are welcome, Dude.
_________________
http://www.co-bw.com/ |
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Yoder
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 2238
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| silverstar wrote: | | Seeing that you have resorted to calling names (June Cleaver) and that no matter what I say you will say is wrong, I refuse to continue this argument. |
A debate it is!
I thought that anyone with the signature: "Play nice, boys and girls. I don't feel like being the section mommy today" would be flattered to be compared to that great white middle-class feminine icon June Cleaver.
One time you said you would throw me a bone. Guess turn about is fair play. 
_________________
http://www.co-bw.com/ |
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OCTA-C
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Nov 2001
Posts: 759
Location: Kenmore, N.Y.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| silverstar wrote: | Yoder,
Seeing that you have resorted to calling names (June Cleaver) and that no matter what I say you will say is wrong, I refuse to continue this argument.
Lara |
June Cleaver?????  Please don't bring that name up! It brings back too many past adolescent urges when I use to watch here on the re-runs!!   |
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Yoder
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 2238
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:23 am Post subject: |
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Yea, great TV! With great characters!
Combat
Bonanza
The Honeymooners
Rawhide
Ed Sullivan
Leave it to Beaver
So, where was the insult? Call me Hoss any day, but don't call me a Beaver!
_________________
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OCTA-C
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Nov 2001
Posts: 759
Location: Kenmore, N.Y.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:28 am Post subject: |
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Gunsmoke
The Rifleman
Twilight Zone |
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PRogers
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Sep 2004
Posts: 953
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| trptStudent wrote: | | PRogers wrote: |
Might as well outlaw tobacco, alcohol, automobiles, prescription drugs, pajamas, fast food, hot dogs, swimming pools, or any number of things by that logic (especially the first two)
Edit: sorry, I just saw that Yoder already addressed that.
BTW, the only rule I pay much credence is the golden rule. I just so happen to also obey most laws of society by proxy, but the I keep the golden rule as often as possible. |
I'm not going to try and challenge your dogmatic beliefs, since I would think that if someone were to endorse the Golden Rule, then they must have some amount of religious faith. However, there is more than one situation where the Golden Rule doesn't hold.
I don't think you'd want a masochist to do to you what he wants done to him.
What rule would you live by if you were the last person on the planet?
What if someone asked you to do something that you would never want done to anyone, but you did it because you respected the wishes of the person who asked?
But I think that living by the Golden Rule is probably better than living by a lot of other things. |
To address your first point, no, I'm athiest. The golden rule is not a religious teaching. In a situation where the golden rule may not apply, I just try to be as fair possible in the given circumstances.
As to the masochist, I'm not worried about how or why other people conduct themselves the way they do, I can't possibly control that and I don't want to. The only specifically relevant things to me are my actions and other's actions toward me.
If I was the last person on the planet I'd live how ever I wanted to live without respect to any specific way of thinking. It's such an outlandish situation that I have some trouble comprehending what I would do.
If someone asked me to do something that I consider wrong, I'd say no. |
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Yoder
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Aug 2004
Posts: 2238
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Richiebee wrote: | | Yoder wrote: |
A debate it is!
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It's not really a debate. You choose to ignore anything that might validate the (off) topic and instead, attempt to ridicule reason.
R. |
It did turn into a debate. The topic was if one was a smoker or not. Pretty boring if left in its original context. A remark was made about smoking in the girls room, seeking the perpetrators, and turning them in. The discussion then turned to one of debating individual rights, and where do the rights of smoking in public begin and end.
There was really nothing to validate or invalidate about the original topic: "do you smoke?" Yes or no.
I did not ridicule reason. I was using reason to defend individual rights. I also discussed the role of statism in destroying individual rights. If I ridicule anything it is mass conformity. Being a trained logician, words and reason are my weapons of choice.
Actually, a few of us were generating some good dialog and then there are those who always come in and interject meaningless jibes. In another thread someone asks why things are getting so boring around here--wow, maybe because somef people around here do not know how to discuss and construct statements of more than six lines that make any sense, or have any semblance of reasoning in them.
Few agree with me, but I will debate with them. I have read Bible passages thrown my way in order to add valid input to debates in other threads. The problem with this thread is that so many people know so little about individual rights, and most seem to fall in the category of being a conformist to the state. This causes a sense of incongruity in the self since the individual is not the "liberated" citizen that our "democratic" society likes us to believe we are.
And so it goes. . .
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12679
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2005 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Yoder wrote: | Also, the US Bill of Rights states that the pursuit of happiness is an inalienable right. Who is to say how one may pursue happiness? As long as the pursuit of happiness does not infringe upon the individual rights of another and/or their rights to property, and thus interfere with their pursuit of happiness, then there is nothing wrong with the activity. To smoke pot in the privacy of ones' home does not impinge upon anyone elses pursuit of happiness or rights.
It is said:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. -- That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government." Thus, we are given permission to revolt--it is the American way. |
I would like to correct this point from an earlier post. The Bill of Rights does not include any reference to the pursuit of happiness.
It was the Declaration of Independence you were quoting, which was a statement of beliefs, but not a legally binding document.
It didn't hit me right away and when it did I had to go and reread the two documents.  |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12679
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| LittleRusty wrote: | | Yoder wrote: | Also, the US Bill of Rights states that the pursuit of happiness is an inalienable right. Who is to say how one may pursue happiness? As long as the pursuit of happiness does not infringe upon the individual rights of another and/or their rights to property, and thus interfere with their pursuit of happiness, then there is nothing wrong with the activity. To smoke pot in the privacy of ones' home does not impinge upon anyone elses pursuit of happiness or rights.
It is said:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. -- That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government." Thus, we are given permission to revolt--it is the American way. |
I would like to correct this point from an earlier post. The Bill of Rights does not include any reference to the pursuit of happiness.
It was the Declaration of Independence you were quoting, which was a statement of beliefs, but not a legally binding document.
It didn't hit me right away and when it did I had to go and reread the two documents. |
I guess no one cared? |
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icebraker613
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 506
Location: NJ
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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"Oh, skeet skeet skeet skeet skeet skeet!" just tryin to lighten up the mood a little!  after being away for a couple a days, i come back, and everybody is arguing with everybody. i chose just to ignore a topic in which i got an argument with somebody. it's the cop-out, but at least i'm not sitting at my computer checking every five minutes to see if somebody responded to my comment so i can attack them back!
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Peter: Oh my god, Brian, there's a message in my Alphabits. It says, 'Oooooo.'
Brian: Peter, those are Cheerios. |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12679
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| C'mon now, I waited 15 hours and 27 minutes, but who's counting. |
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icebraker613
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 506
Location: NJ
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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lol. nobody in this thread in particular. in another thread i was in, this guy was replying in like a minute after all of my posts ready to rip me.
_________________
Peter: Oh my god, Brian, there's a message in my Alphabits. It says, 'Oooooo.'
Brian: Peter, those are Cheerios. |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12679
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| No offense taken even if you meant it. Sometimes I need to be whomped up the side of the head to get some sense. |
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Comno6
Veteran Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 478
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Yoder wrote: | | Comno6 wrote: | Yoder, wow dude. You apparently have some vendetta against society and stardized laws.
Then when the argument starts to go down hill, you decide to resort personal attacks. Yes that is very professional. People don't appreciate you insulting them and then throwing up your ideas that more than half the time have no real meaning, except what is 2 feet in front of you.
This is a forum for people to discuss issues and promote ideas, not to insult each other. Please if you would like to make your point, then do it with some professionialism.
Thank you
Chris |
Yea, I hate statism. I also hate dogma, fascists, government control, cockroaches, and unjust laws.
If my logic upsets others too bad. Doesn't it just suck when someone does not believe in what you believe in, or if someone thinks that norms or your society stink? Life is cruel!
I only insult social norms--an iconoclast I am.
Professionalism? Is that where you drop in out of nowhere and make innane remarks?
You are welcome, Dude. |
I am not sure how you can not comprehend professionalism. Maybe you can get out a dictionary and look it up. The only reason I found a need to make a remark, was because you were resorting to something that 5 year olds do.
Your rebellious attitude makes you against every norm doesn't it? You must live in constant paranoia. I feel sorry for you. It is easy to constantly question everyone's ideals, but unless you have a better idea, or have the power to do something about it, then there is no need for foul play. This is a FRIENDLY FORUM, not a place to chew people out, and spit in there face. When you really have no reason to anyway.
So I am just trying to make a friendly reminder that debating can occur without resorting to CHILDISH behavior.
Chris
_________________
I would like to make a profound statement:
If you Practice..... You can get better...
YES I KNOW.. Profound!! |
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HunchbackofNotredame
Veteran Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 154
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| silverstar wrote: | If I get beat up I don't care. Breaking the law is breaking the law and it's wrong.
Lara |
LOL!!!!!!!!!! |
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silverstar
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Nov 2004
Posts: 3769
Location: Solon, IA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| HunchbackofNotredame wrote: | | silverstar wrote: | If I get beat up I don't care. Breaking the law is breaking the law and it's wrong.
Lara |
LOL!!!!!!!!!! |
What's so funny? I've been beaten up before, and I've beaten someone else up before. Grrrr!
Lara 
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I <3 my Bb Eclipse MR!!
I may falter, I may fall, but I will get back up and keep at it. Fall down 7 times, get up 8. |
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ADziuk
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Mar 2004
Posts: 545
Location: Twin Cities, MN
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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Yoder, basically what it sounds like is that you want laws that support YOUR right to do what YOU want. We live in a society here bud, and your right to do what you want ends where other people's right to be safe from your behavior begins.
Saying that pot smoking should be legal because it doesn't affect anyone else when you do it in the privacy of your own home is ridiculous. It ignores the infrastructure and consequences that happen to people when they do it. You know that is not reality, but it suits your argument.
About trumpet players that smoke, or anyone else that smokes in general, that is also a load of bull. Smoking should be banned in public places. Lately it is trendy for smokers to complain that somehow they have "rights." Yeah, I do too, and since me inhaling your smoke endangers my health but you not smoking doesn't endanger yours, my rights win.
Beyond that, everyone seems to think that smokers only effect themselves. Do you have any idea how much $$ society throws away paying for the health care costs. We could all be paying 1/4 for health care what we do now, make social security solvent, fund public education fully, and have money left over for the military if no one smoked.
Those who are older are forgiven in some ways, because when they grew up and got hooked, people really honestly did not know the consequences. Anyone under the age of 40 has no excuse. I'll make you a deal, you can smoke all you want, and then you can pay for my next doctor visit. Deal? |
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