Still working on High C

tpetplyr · Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2002 5:32 am Post subject:

I've been playing for 4 years now and I still cannot get above G or A (on top of the staff/ 1 ledger) with any consistency at all. My teacher has me doing drills on increasing the volume of air and its speed and using less lip, and these drills are doing wonders for my tone, but they have not affected my range at all. I play principal in our orchestra and our school band and find that I often need to go above the staff. I was wondering if the other books/ suggestions posted were still applicable to people who didn't have any high range foundation to begin with.

Stuart

Emb_Enh · Veteran Member Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Posts: 455

I was wondering if the other books/ suggestions posted were still applicable to people who didn't have any high range foundation to begin with.
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Yes I would say the information would be applicable...however in an effort to find what works for ourselves it's up to us as individuals to try to be "our own best teachers" and sift through the information usinng trial and error carefully ...

Roddy o-iii<O
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vivace · Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2002 7:41 am Post subject:

get some lip flexibility excercises, a la colin. Also, the more you play up there, the better.... like riding a bike.. how else are you gonna learn to ride without the training wheels if you don't go and do it.

also, pedal tones are good.
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ByroTrumpet · Regular Member Joined: 10 Jul 2002 Posts: 77

Yeah go for those flexibility exercises and when you do them, play in the high register above the staff. Also work on playing soft because playing higher isn't all about quantity of air its all about velocity. By learning to play soft in the upper register it is easier to get your apeture focused for those high notes and will help you to worry more about velocity of air instead of quantity. Your tone is getting better as a result of you using more air. Remember,
more air = louder, fuller
faster air = higher
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If there is anything that I stated here that someone doesn't agree with or if it is just plain wrong. Let me know (be professional about it), because I want to learn more. Have a great day everyone!

tpetplyr · Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2002 11:28 am Post subject:

Thanks alot! Do the flexibility studies in the Vizzutti books work? Or should I get different ones? There are so many fun pieces to play and while I have the technique to play most, i don't have the range or endurance for a lot of them. I do try to play high though, i just dont last long. Do you advocate playing as high as I comfortably can for a long period, or trying to push it all the time? Or a combination of the two?

Stuart

ByroTrumpet · Regular Member Joined: 10 Jul 2002 Posts: 77

Keep pushing yourself but try to do it as comfortably as you can. Don't force yourself too hard because you might end up overblowing and spreading your embochure making high notes lots harder.

you know, you can even just make up your own lip slur exercises.

a simple one would just be slurring from C in the staff up to high C hitting all of the partials so C-E-G-Bb(false pitch) and C. and then back down... just make sure you just keep moving all over your horn. also start from low C and see how high you can slur hitting all of the partials without resetting your embochure for the higher notes. that is a good exercise... do it slow and fast and try to get into the higher register and the trick is to try and make it sound easy and even. Playing them soft will help you to be pickier with yourself.

Make sure you are hitting the center of every pitch when you are doing these because it will make everything easier. If you are only kinda hitting them in the center then you are putting in more effort than needed because you are forcing your air through the side of a slot instead of the center. Which is actually making tings a lot harder for yourself.

I'm sure that there are good exercises for flexibilty in the vizzutti book. Just as long as you are slurring intervals.
Another good book for embochure development is the irons or schlossberg book.

Good luck with the high C!
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Byron

If there is anything that I stated here that someone doesn't agree with or if it is just plain wrong. Let me know (be professional about it), because I want to learn more. Have a great day everyone!

trickg · Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2002 12:27 pm Post subject:

About half of the exercises that I play are exercises that I have created myself.

Just take things slow and work your fundamentals within the staff, playing at a relaxed and easy volume and without too much pressure.
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Goldenchops55 · Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2002 2:04 pm Post subject:

It might be your setup that is causing your lack of range. It may be too open, thus limiting possible range and endurance. I had the same problem. If you don't know if you have an open embouchure, there is a quick test you can do. Set your lips, put the mouthpiece to your lips, and blow softly, WITH NO EXCESS PRESSURE! Just let the air do the work, if you can't get a sound without using using any pressure, then your embouchure is to open.

DSR · Posted: Fri Jul 26, 2002 10:55 pm Post subject:

Well hello!

Your situation seems to be similar to mine 6 months ago. I had the same problem...could only play about a G or A and was principal. I just wasn't cutting it. In an effort to repair my chops I picked up a copy of Donald S. Reinhardt's Encyclopedia of the Pivot System, which concentrates on individuality and working with your own physical makeup.

My problem was that I had a faulty mouthpiece placement and my jaw entirely too receded so the entire embouchure became flabby. When in fact I am an upstream player (ask me more!), I was trying to play like a downstream player (unconsciously, of course). After adopting Reinhardt's strict rules and discovering my physical type classification, a high F (F above high C) just popped out of the horn...effortlessly....literally in an instant.

I could go tell you to do a bunch of lip slurs, play lip flexibilities, concentrate on your air ect....but I don't think that is valid in your situation. Giving you a multitude of exercises to practice will only compound your frustration. I don't know what kind, but you do have a definite embouchure problems.

You have range...you do have the facial strength to produce a clear high C right at this instant! How? "M" upper lip, lip pucker, correct mouthpiece placement (not necessarily the same one as everyone else), four legs (as near as possible to the center of the lips), and some air. It doesn't matter if you breath incorrectly, you can still play a high C. Correct breathing is extremely important, but it only becomes of primary concern after you solve your embouchure problems.

You may be confused by my Reinhardt terminology. Don't be. Invest in a copy today. I think you can buy them online.

His pivot system is based on logic and science (yes!)...not tradition, as some teachers adhere to.

There's my bit...hopefully it is of some consolation.

tpetplyr · Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2002 3:59 am Post subject:

Doesn't the pivot system involve pivoting the trumpet around the mouthpiece depending on the register you are playing in? And where can I get the book? Rkingmusic.com?

DSR · Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2002 11:36 am Post subject:

Here is a definition from the pivotalk website, the only spot on the internet that you can find Reinhardt information:

The lips and mouthpiece "as one unit" must move vertically on "the track of the inner embouchure (the teeth for trumpet - the teeth and gums for trombone) and whether or not this movement is to be in an upward or downward direction to ascend or descend is strictly upon the performers particular physical type.

Keep in mind this movement is slight....once pivoting has been mastered, angular motion of the instrument is hardly noticeable or non-existent.

The encyclopedia discusses the pivot in utmost detail.

The address for the pivotalk website is: http://www.mindspring.com/~scream/pivot/

On the main page it sais "AND he has revised editions of the Pivot Encyclopedia for $30.00. Please remember that a portion of all sales go towards the Reinhardt Foundation. " You might want to check that out.

Here are two other sites that you MAY be able to order the encyclopedia through:

http://www.charlescolin.com/text/
http://www.hornplace.com/TT026.html

Hope that helps. Ask any other questions you may have.

trumpet1 · Veteran Member Joined: 07 Jun 2002 Posts: 218

I squeaked around my first year to get high C....eventually crappy note became pretty note and I continued to go upward to find my place outside the staff....

DSR · Posted: Sat Jul 27, 2002 3:45 pm Post subject:

I checked and you can also buy it at http://rkingmusic.com.

Greatest Trumpeter · Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2002 11:45 am Post subject:

Quadruple C · Heavyweight Member Joined: 28 Nov 2001 Posts: 1448

[ This Message was edited by: Quadruple C on 2003-10-01 19:04 ]

dbacon · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 8592

tcutrpt · Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2002 12:18 pm Post subject:

I second what Dave said. The Bai Lin book is GREAT!

Matt

P.S. It's good to return to the board.

groovinhigher · Posted: Sun Aug 25, 2002 8:03 pm Post subject:

A great book by Frank Minear for this kind of stuff... You can contact him at:

fmtrptman@aol.com

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[ This Message was edited by: groovinhigher on 2002-08-25 23:03 ]