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rhatheway Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Apr 2024 Posts: 198 Location: Texas
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 6:58 am Post subject: Cornet mp adapter for trumpet |
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I recently came across what appears to be a vintage adapter that lets you use a cornet mp in a trumpet. It's about 1 1/2" long and has two nibs, one on each side, about 1/4" from the top. From the marks on the shank, it looks like it fits about 3/4"-7/8" into the leadpipe of the trumpet.
My question is, why would you want to do that? Especially given how many trumpet mps there are now (and even then)?
Or could this have been an adapter to use a cornet mp on a flugelhorn?
Curious minds want to know... _________________ Richard H
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Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1958 Conn Director 14A |
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huntman10 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Aug 2017 Posts: 711 Location: Texas South Plains
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 7:34 am Post subject: |
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While cornet to trumpet mouthpiece adapters are not uncommon in old cases, what you described is a bit too long to be that. Many older Cornets had extra receivers so the cornets could be easily changed from the old "High Pitch" standard (A = 452.5 cycles) to the modern "low pitch" (A = 440 cycles). Modern concert pitch was actually standardized by the treaty that ended World War I, BTW! Although there were high pitch words instruments continuing into the 30's.
That is my guess _________________ huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc. |
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rhatheway Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Apr 2024 Posts: 198 Location: Texas
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 8:42 am Post subject: |
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huntman10 wrote: | While cornet to trumpet mouthpiece adapters are not uncommon in old cases, what you described is a bit too long to be that. Many older Cornets had extra receivers so the cornets could be easily changed from the old "High Pitch" standard (A = 452.5 cycles) to the modern "low pitch" (A = 440 cycles). Modern concert pitch was actually standardized by the treaty that ended World War I, BTW! Although there were high pitch words instruments continuing into the 30's.
That is my guess |
Interesting, I'd never heard that the tuning changed after WWI.
So those old adapters were used to lengthen the leadpipe and that in turn helped lower the tuning? But still, that adapter that I found doesn't fit a trumpet mp, only a cornet mp, so would the combination of additional lead pipe length and a smaller bore on the cornet mp cause the tuning to change/lower? Or am I misunderstanding what you said (which is highly likely)? _________________ Richard H
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Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1958 Conn Director 14A |
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Richard III Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2007 Posts: 2662 Location: Anacortes, WA
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Early cornets had tuning bits which you are describing. Many cornets could be played in C, Bb and A. The slides were much longer and the appropriate tuning bit was used to make the whole thing in tune.
Here's my old Conn with the Bb tuning bit.
[img]ConnWonder1 by genevie7, on Flickr[/img] _________________ Richard
1903 Conn "The Wonder" Cornet
1943 Conn 80A Cornet |
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rhatheway Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Apr 2024 Posts: 198 Location: Texas
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 10:06 am Post subject: |
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Richard III wrote: | Early cornets had tuning bits which you are describing. Many cornets could be played in C, Bb and A. The slides were much longer and the appropriate tuning bit was used to make the whole thing in tune.
Here's my old Conn with the Bb tuning bit.
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That tuning bit looks very similar to what I have. So based on that, it's not a mp adapter, it was used to tune the horn to the desired key.
One last question. Did those older cornets have a wider leadpipe? I thought it was a mp adapter because it's too big to fit into my 1958 cornet leadpipe, but fit in my trumpet.
This is fascinating... I love learning new things.
Thanks for the info! _________________ Richard H
------------------------------------------
Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1958 Conn Director 14A |
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huntman10 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Aug 2017 Posts: 711 Location: Texas South Plains
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Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2024 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, the Cornets that had the tuning bits were not meant to be played without the bits. The mouthpiece would not fit properly without the bit. And would be sharp, as well. _________________ huntman10
Collector/Player of Fine (and not so fine) Brass Instruments including
Various Strads, Yammies, Al Hirt Courtois, Schilkes,
Selmer 25, Getzen Eternas, Kanstuls (920 Pic, CG)
Martin Custom Large Bore, Lots Olds!, Conns, etc. |
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Man Of Constant Sorrow Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Jun 2023 Posts: 487
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Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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I need tuning bits.
I have several vintage ca late 1800s, early 1900s, Shepherd's Crook style Cornets. Most are missing tunings bits ... or, have incorrect pieces.
Any help would be appreciated. Will pay. _________________ Sub-Optimal Hillbilly Jazz |
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rhatheway Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Apr 2024 Posts: 198 Location: Texas
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Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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Man Of Constant Sorrow wrote: | I need tuning bits.
I have several vintage ca late 1800s, early 1900s, Shepherd's Crook style Cornets. Most are missing tunings bits ... or, have incorrect pieces.
Any help would be appreciated. Will pay. |
When I was trying to find out more about what I have, I did some online searching and found quite a few listed on ebay, Reverb, etc. I typed in "vintage cornet tuning bits" and got quite a few results back, so I bet if you do a search like that, but add the qualifiers of what specifically you're looking for, you'll be able to find what you need. You'll still probably have to do some back and forth with the sellers to make sure they have what you need, but I'd bet you'll find something to fit. _________________ Richard H
------------------------------------------
Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1958 Conn Director 14A |
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Man Of Constant Sorrow Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Jun 2023 Posts: 487
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Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for that, rhatheway.
[/b] _________________ Sub-Optimal Hillbilly Jazz |
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Dale Proctor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 May 2005 Posts: 9380 Location: Heart of Dixie
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Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2024 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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I have a couple cornet to trumpet adapters. I also have a Reeves cornet to cornet adapter that I used to bring an 1870s high-pitch cornet into tune with a reenactment band I used to play with.
I see them included quite often in the cases of early 20th century trumpets, and my theory is most people still played cornets at that time, and if you had a favorite mouthpiece you’d been using for years, it allowed you to use it on a trumpet. Back then, the selection of trumpet mouthpieces was pretty sparse and you were usually stuck with the one that came with the trumpet. _________________ "Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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iiipopes Heavyweight Member
Joined: 29 Jun 2015 Posts: 556
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Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2024 5:46 am Post subject: |
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As above, yes, sometimes on older cornets, just like on a flugelhorn, you needed the leadpipe extender to make the mouthpiece seat properly and the cornet play properly.
When I was a boy in the '60's, my Dad had an actual nibbed cornet/trumpet adapter. I think it was because his older brother had a King Silvertone cornet, and he had after awhile a King Super 20 trumpet, and used it until he got a preferred mouthpiece for the trumpet.
So yes, both are out there. Just because it has nibs does not automatically make it one or the other, whether leadpipe or adapter. _________________ King Super 20 Trumpet; Sov 921 Cornet
Bach cornet modded to be a 181L clone
Couesnon Flugelhorn and C trumpet |
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