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SufiTrumpet New Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2024 Posts: 2
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:47 am Post subject: Edwards x-13 |
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Hi so i got recently the edwards trumpet and i love it! I bought second hand and dont have the harmonic pillar. Can anyone who tried them describe how they affect the horn? |
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improver Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Mar 2004 Posts: 1456
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 5:27 am Post subject: |
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Dont feel like you are missing anything with the pillars. They inhibit the openness and playability of the horn imho. |
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Ronnman Veteran Member
Joined: 09 Aug 2019 Posts: 415 Location: SE Louisiana
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 5:37 am Post subject: |
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SufiTrumpet - First, welcome to the Trumpet Herald. See the link below and enter “Harmonic AND Pillar” and the select the horns forum. You will find other opinion’s related to the different pillars.
Ron
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/search.php?mode=results _________________ Martin Committee #2 1954
Leblanc “Al Hirt” Model 1966
Olds Custom Crafted Ultra Sonic 1974
Edwards Gen II 2014 |
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yourbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3643 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 7:37 am Post subject: |
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My experience with the copper pillar has been that tongueing and articulation seemed a bit more secure. But the other day I was practicing and noticed that staff Ab was noticeably more muffled sounding than staff G right next to it.
I removed the pillar and everything responded more evenly. _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/ |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2060 Location: USA
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 7:57 am Post subject: |
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You can purchase the harmonic pillar directly from Edwards for $25. Here is the link:
https://store.edwards-instruments.com/product/harmonic-brace-pillar-sets
Make sure you select the "Unipillar Kit" option.
I found that the pillar impacted slotting -- the presence of the pillar generally making slotting more secure -- and resonance -- the pillar seeming to make the horn sound fuller. But, not surprisingly, it also impacted intonation, making it less predictable (for me). I decided that I preferred the horn without the pillar, but I suspect that if I had kept the pillar in place for a while I would have gotten used to the intonation quirks and been able to adjust for them. |
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ericmpena Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2021 Posts: 263 Location: Kyle, TX
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2024 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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I've owned the X-13 and found that the harmonic pillars cut down the high end frequencies of the horn.
Non-scientifically speaking, the nickel pillar reduces maybe 20% of the high end frequencies, while the copper pillar reduces maybe 70%.
Using no sound pillar on the horn makes the horn feel a bit more vibrant to your ears.
I've had similar results by adding heavy bottom caps on other horns.
For instance, if you added a heavy bottom cap to just the 3rd valve of a trumpet, you might have similar effects of the X-13 with the nickel pillar.
If you added heavy bottom caps to all 3 valves, then you might have a similar effect as the X-13 with the copper pillar.
That has been my personal experience with the sound pillars. It's something that you have to experience and experiment with in person. It's not something that I was able to capture for a video demonstration. _________________ Thane Performing Artist
www.youtube.com/ericmpena
https://thanetrumpets.com/ |
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SufiTrumpet New Member
Joined: 04 Apr 2024 Posts: 2
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Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2024 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you all for the replies, thats very helpful. |
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Rwwilson Veteran Member
Joined: 13 Sep 2019 Posts: 190 Location: Austin Texas
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Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2024 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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ericmpena says "Non-scientifically speaking, the nickel pillar reduces maybe 20% of the high end frequencies, while the copper pillar reduces maybe 70%"
Could you elaborate a bit. A 70% reduction in the high frequencies would seem to be very noticeable and make the trumpet sound like a dark flugelhorn. |
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ericmpena Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Nov 2021 Posts: 263 Location: Kyle, TX
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Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2024 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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Rwwilson wrote: | ericmpena says "Non-scientifically speaking, the nickel pillar reduces maybe 20% of the high end frequencies, while the copper pillar reduces maybe 70%"
Could you elaborate a bit. A 70% reduction in the high frequencies would seem to be very noticeable and make the trumpet sound like a dark flugelhorn. |
Sorry, it hard to explain exactly what you’ll hear…so maybe my numbers are exaggerated just to make the point.
No pillar = Lots of zing in your ear.
Nickel pillar = Less zing in your ear.
Copper pillar = No zing in your ear.
Less “zing” makes the horn sound “dead”, which is probably nice for jazz combo stuff.
I wouldn’t say it’s comparable to a flugelhorn though. It’s more like a heavily braced trumpet… _________________ Thane Performing Artist
www.youtube.com/ericmpena
https://thanetrumpets.com/ |
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yourbrass Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3643 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
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Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2024 9:01 am Post subject: |
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"No pillar = Lots of zing in your ear.
Nickel pillar = Less zing in your ear.
Copper pillar = No zing in your ear."
I found that the copper pillar narrowed the sound, but increased secure articulation, for want of a better term. There is still is plenty of zing, although Eric is right that no pillar produces a bigger sound.
The nickel pillar just didn't do much positive for my taste. _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/ |
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Jaw04 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2015 Posts: 900 Location: Bay Area, California
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Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2024 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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The pillars make an immediately notable difference in the tonal spectrum and feel for the player. Even changes the intonation/slotting. As for the listener, I'm not sure if the tone changes as dramatically across a room. I prefer the tone and open-ness without the pillar, but found security up around F around high C was improved with the nickel pillar. The direction you screw the pillar is another varying factor... |
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