| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
kramergfy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 992
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
 Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2023 1:52 pm Post subject: Bach 19072x |
 |
|
Still not a lot of discussion of the new gen Bachs. Has anyone tried this new 72*? I am a fan of this set up and am wondering how it may compare to the new 8335LA
_________________
"I'm 73 and I'm still learning." - Maurice Murphy
Thread killer. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Chadwick
Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 144
Location: United States
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2023 3:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Conn-Selmer was rumored to have a batch of Bach 19072X trumpets ready to go in September, but then that got delayed. A few different distributors have told me that a batch should be ready to ship sometime in December (EDIT 3/11/24: Bach did not make the December goal, and now estimates delivery sometime in May 2024. For whatever reason though, Conn-Selmer doesn’t look to be producing very many of this specific model.
The Yamaha 8335LAIIS is a really well-built horn. I played one a few weeks ago and it felt unrestricted and balanced across the whole range. Per caliper measurements, Yamaha retained the large bore tuning slide size from the first-gen 8335LA (0.462” ID on both legs) while using a two-piece ML valve block. Those valves felt fast and buttery smooth, better than the 10+ Bach 180 series and various Schilke trumpets I played that day.
When I played the LAIIS alongside two 180 series silver Bach 72*/25-O trumpets, the 72* bells sounded to me and another trumpet player as if those would work better for lead work. The sales rep also told me they felt the OG 8335LA had more edge and sizzle than the V2 which is more geared to all-around players, but I don't have any personal experience here.
As of this post there's a single silver 190S72X in stock and for sale (link), which I think was a NAMM demo model. Otherwise, it looks like nobody has one in stock & for sale today. I’ve been waiting for a few months to playtest a Bach 19072X in lacquer... and I think I will just keep waiting a little bit longer 
Last edited by Chadwick on Mon Mar 11, 2024 1:30 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2023 3:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Chadwick wrote: | Conn-Selmer was rumored to have a batch of Bach 19072X trumpets ready to go in September, but then that got delayed. A few different distributors have told me that a batch should be ready to ship sometime in December. For whatever reason though, Conn-Selmer doesn’t look to be producing very many of this specific model.
The Yamaha 8335LAIIS is a really well-built horn. I played one a few weeks ago and it felt unrestricted and balanced across the whole range. Per caliper measurements, Yamaha retained the large bore tuning slide size from the first-gen 8335LA (0.462” ID on both legs) while using a two-piece ML valve block. Those valves felt fast and buttery smooth, better than the 10+ Bach and Schilke trumpets I played that day.
When I played the LAIIS alongside two 180 series silver Bach 72*/25-O trumpets, the 72* bells sounded to me and another trumpet player as if those would work better for lead work. The sales rep also told me they felt the OG 8335LA
OG as in outgoing?
had more edge and sizzle than the V2
V2 as in version 2?
which is more geared to all-around players, but I don't have any personal experience here.
As of this post there's a single silver 190S72X in stock and for sale (link), which I think was a NAMM demo model. Otherwise, it looks like nobody has one in stock & for sale today. I’ve been waiting for a few months to playtest a Bach 19072X in lacquer... and I think I will just keep waiting a little bit longer
Thanks very much.
All very interesting.
Lou |
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chadwick
Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 144
Location: United States
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2023 5:56 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Louise Finch wrote: |
OG as in outgoing? By OG I meant original -- the first 8335LA released in 2006.
V2 as in version 2? Yes - YTR-8335LAII
|
My understanding is the three big differences with the YTR-8335LAII compared to the original are: the two-piece valve section, the leadpipe design (more efficient + goldbrass), and new heavy bottom caps.
It's worth pointing out that Yamaha will sell you a side-seam bell and a two-piece valve section with the YTR-8335LAII for ~$1350-1500 USD less than Conn-Selmer will with the new Bach 190 series. That's a HUGE price disparity, and the retail price of a Bach 19072X ($4,499) is not far off from the sticker price of some well-done Mt. Vernon-era Bach restorations. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kramergfy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Apr 2004
Posts: 992
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2023 8:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I am a sucker for how the 72*/43 blows; but I always wish the sound was a tad more centered. I have a very rare and unique mid 60s early Elkhart Bach 72* bell, 43 pipe, but with a standard weight body. It's very similar to a later Mt. Vernon, except the bell bead is a round steel wire instead of a French bead. Its a fantastic horn that speaks instantly. I think it has more core than a typical 72*, and carries even better. Hopefully we'll see and hear more about this new 72x model, as I might be tempted to splurge if it's better than my horn.
_________________
"I'm 73 and I'm still learning." - Maurice Murphy
Thread killer. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2023 1:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Chadwick wrote: | | Louise Finch wrote: |
OG as in outgoing? By OG I meant original -- the first 8335LA released in 2006.
V2 as in version 2? Yes - YTR-8335LAII
|
Thanks very much for the clarification.
My understanding is the three big differences with the YTR-8335LAII compared to the original are: the two-piece valve section, the leadpipe design (more efficient + goldbrass), and new heavy bottom caps.
Very interesting, thanks.
It's worth pointing out that Yamaha will sell you a side-seam bell and a two-piece valve section with the YTR-8335LAII for ~$1350-1500 USD less than Conn-Selmer will with the new Bach 190 series. That's a HUGE price disparity,
That is.
and the retail price of a Bach 19072X ($4,499) is not far off from the sticker price of some well-done Mt. Vernon-era Bach restorations.
I suppose that they sadly charge what people are prepared to pay. I wonder how the YTR-8335LAII and Bach 19072X compare. I personally really like Yamaha trumpets, and choose to play my Xeno II over my Bach 37, but obviously these are different trumpets to what we are discussing.
All the best
Lou |
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BreakFromTheHerd
Veteran Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2022
Posts: 141
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Subtropical and Subpar
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 May 2020
Posts: 632
Location: Here and there
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 1:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Chadwick wrote: | | Louise Finch wrote: |
OG as in outgoing? By OG I meant original -- the first 8335LA released in 2006.
V2 as in version 2? Yes - YTR-8335LAII
|
My understanding is the three big differences with the YTR-8335LAII compared to the original are: the two-piece valve section, the leadpipe design (more efficient + goldbrass), and new heavy bottom caps.
It's worth pointing out that Yamaha will sell you a side-seam bell and a two-piece valve section with the YTR-8335LAII for ~$1350-1500 USD less than Conn-Selmer will with the new Bach 190 series. That's a HUGE price disparity, and the retail price of a Bach 19072X ($4,499) is not far off from the sticker price of some well-done Mt. Vernon-era Bach restorations. |
Yeah, that's a ton of money for a Bach, nice as they might be (and I do love my regular weight 72 bell that I've had nearly 30 years now). I think $4,500 is $400 or $500 more than the flagship Shires or Schilkes sell for, too. Or for the very well regarded Thane Performance trumpet with its 72-inspired bell. I mean, I think I've seen used AR Resonances and Harrelsons and such for not much more than $4,500.
_________________
1932 King Silvertone cornet
1936 King Liberty No. 2 trumpet
1958 Reynolds Contempora 44-M "Renascence" C
1962 Reynolds Argenta LB trumpet
1965 Conn 38A
1995 Bach LR18072
2003 Kanstul 991
2011 Schilke P5-4 B/G
2021 Manchester Brass flugel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
abontrumpet
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 1805
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 1:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Subtropical and Subpar wrote: | | Chadwick wrote: | | It's worth pointing out that Yamaha will sell you a side-seam bell and a two-piece valve section with the YTR-8335LAII ~$1350-1500 USD less[/url] than Conn-Selmer will with the new Bach 190 series. That's a HUGE price disparity, and the retail price of a Bach 19072X ($4,499) is not far off from the sticker price of some well-done Mt. Vernon-era Bach restorations. |
Yeah, that's a ton of money for a Bach, nice as they might be (and I do love my regular weight 72 bell that I've had nearly 30 years now). |
8335, by definition, is not the highest level of trumpet that Yamaha offers; that level is the 9000 series trumpet. So you'd have to look at the 180 series bach's to compare (which I'm seeing for $3700 for a 180 72).
Comparing brands and prices is fair, since it is "the market," but I also see on "the market" that Yamaha is selling their premium line for roughly $5,300, which is $800 more than Bach's premium line. Personally, having played the new bach's they, on average, beat out Mt. Vernon era trumpets and do so without the headache of restoration.
What's gone into these horns is more than just "a side-seam bell and a two-piece valve section," it's been designed from the ground up, a nice departure from Bach's yesteryears. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chadwick
Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 144
Location: United States
|
| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 3:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| abontrumpet wrote: |
Comparing brands and prices is fair, since it is "the market," but I also see on "the market" that Yamaha is selling their premium line for roughly $5,300, which is $800 more than Bach's premium line. Personally, having played the new bach's they, on average, beat out Mt. Vernon era trumpets and do so without the headache of restoration. |
That's totally fair about the price if these new 190s are same or better caliber than the YTR-9335NYS/VSII/CHS. I really hope so!
The handful of Mt. Vernon Bach trumpets I've played were all professionally restored. When I wrote that comment in November I was considering picking up one of those restored Mt. Vernon trumpets (which would have been price competitive with the new 190 series). I decided to hold off until I get a chance to playtest the 190 series! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
abontrumpet
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 May 2009
Posts: 1805
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 21, 2024 6:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Chadwick wrote: | That's totally fair about the price if these new 190s are same or better caliber than the YTR-9335NYS/VSII/CHS. I really hope so!
The handful of Mt. Vernon Bach trumpets I've played were all professionally restored. When I wrote that comment in November I was considering picking up one of those restored Mt. Vernon trumpets (which would have been price competitive with the new 190 series). I decided to hold off until I get a chance to playtest the 190 series! |
It's been pretty wild to test the news ones (considering I had been incredibly critical and harsh on Bach over the last decade). I would say most of the ones I played were same or better than Yamaha 9000 series in terms of playability (e.g., feel/eveness/etc.) and the sound, well, it's all preference but if you lean towards the Mt. Vernon/Bach "sound" then it's the best of both worlds.
Hope you get to try one soon! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
