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jhatpro
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002
Posts: 10204
Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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 Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 2:29 pm Post subject: Scam Question |
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I put a horn on Craigslist and got an offer from someone that wanted to pay by check but wanted to make the check for more than the price of the horn so I could pay to have a moving company pick the instrument up.
The price of the horn is $800 and the buyer said the check to me would be for $1,800 including a grand for the mover.
This was a new one on me and smells scammy but I can’t figure the angle. Anyone encounter such an arrangement?
_________________
Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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astadler
Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2014
Posts: 130
Location: Little Rock, AR
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah sounds like a variant on a common scam where they overpay, you pay them back, the check appears to clear at first so that you actually pay them, and then the check ends up bouncing. |
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Jerry
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 2165
Location: Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Run away !!!!
Don’t do it. |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12665
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: Scam Question |
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| jhatpro wrote: | I put a horn on Craigslist and got an offer from someone that wanted to pay by check but wanted to make the check for more than the price of the horn so I could pay to have a moving company pick the instrument up.
The price of the horn is $800 and the buyer said the check to me would be for $1,800 including a grand for the mover.
This was a new one on me and smells scammy but I can’t figure the angle. Anyone encounter such an arrangement? |
This is a variant of a common and old scam. The scammer just changes the details to keep it “fresh”.
First, why would it cost $1000 to ship a trumpet? (It doesn’t)
Second, the way the scam works is that you deposit the check and your bank accepts it since it is a good enough fake. So knowing you got the money you meet up with the “mover”, give him the horn and $1000.
Some short time later your bank calls and tells you the check was declined at the bank it was drawn on.
So you end up owing the bank the original $1800 to cover the bad check, gave away your trumpet and an extra $1000.
One difference in the scam is that they used to say that you could keep any extra if shipping cost less than the estimate. That gets a lot of people hooked because “free money”.
Tell the “buyer” to send the mover the $1800 and have the mover give you your $800 when they arrive to pick it up. |
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Quadstriker
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Joined: 14 Dec 2021
Posts: 113
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: Scam Question |
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| LittleRusty wrote: |
Tell the “buyer” to send the mover the $1800 and have the mover give you your $800 when they arrive to pick it up. |
Don't bother with any of this. There is nothing to be gained with further discourse with scammers once a scam is identified unless you enjoy wasting your own time. |
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jhatpro
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002
Posts: 10204
Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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Wow! It may be an old scam but it’s a new one on me and it got tried on me twice today!
A second “buyer” wanted to do the same thing!
I told both of them the horn has been sold to someone else - someone who didn’t ask me to pay a mover.
_________________
Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12665
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: Scam Question |
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| Quadstriker wrote: | | LittleRusty wrote: |
Tell the “buyer” to send the mover the $1800 and have the mover give you your $800 when they arrive to pick it up. |
Don't bother with any of this. There is nothing to be gained with further discourse with scammers once a scam is identified unless you enjoy wasting your own time. |
Actually gaining the satisfaction of jerking them around and wasting their time can be satisfying. There are some YouTubers that make a living doing this.
Also telling the scammer this alerts them that you are onto them and they probably will stop wasting both their and the targets time.
So “nothing to be gained” might be a little strong. YMMV |
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Halflip
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Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1937
Location: WI
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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Back in the days before PayPal was the de facto payment option for eBay, sellers there used to simply wait until buyers' checks cleared the banks before doing any shipping. This scam seems a little flawed in that it depends upon the seller failing to take this precaution.
Another option would be to tell the buyer that you will only accept cashier's checks or postal money orders.
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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Quadstriker
Veteran Member
Joined: 14 Dec 2021
Posts: 113
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Scam Question |
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| LittleRusty wrote: | | Quadstriker wrote: | | LittleRusty wrote: |
Tell the “buyer” to send the mover the $1800 and have the mover give you your $800 when they arrive to pick it up. |
Don't bother with any of this. There is nothing to be gained with further discourse with scammers once a scam is identified unless you enjoy wasting your own time. |
Actually gaining the satisfaction of jerking them around and wasting their time can be satisfying. There are some YouTubers that make a living doing this.
Also telling the scammer this alerts them that you are onto them and they probably will stop wasting both their and the targets time.
So “nothing to be gained” might be a little strong. YMMV |
Fair. So let me amend by saying you are never getting money from this person for a trumpet, so proceed using your time as you see fit based on that fact. There is no magic "If I word my request the right way I'll complete a sale" language here. |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12665
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: Scam Question |
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| Quadstriker wrote: | | LittleRusty wrote: | | Quadstriker wrote: | | LittleRusty wrote: |
Tell the “buyer” to send the mover the $1800 and have the mover give you your $800 when they arrive to pick it up. |
Don't bother with any of this. There is nothing to be gained with further discourse with scammers once a scam is identified unless you enjoy wasting your own time. |
Actually gaining the satisfaction of jerking them around and wasting their time can be satisfying. There are some YouTubers that make a living doing this.
Also telling the scammer this alerts them that you are onto them and they probably will stop wasting both their and the targets time.
So “nothing to be gained” might be a little strong. YMMV |
Fair. So let me amend by saying you are never getting money from this person for a trumpet, so proceed using your time as you see fit based on that fact. There is no magic "If I word my request the right way I'll complete a sale" language here. |
I understand how my post could be interpreted as giving hope to the seller. I apologize.
My intent was to end the scammer’s fishing attempt by bringing reason to the proposal thus ending the opportunity for the scammer. It would just be a little more fun then ghosting or telling the scammer you know it’s a scam. |
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TrumpetMD
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 2419
Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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Any transaction where the other person is asking for anything unusual should be considered a scam. This includes over-paying for any reason (as described by jhatpro in this thread), selling the horn to one person but with another person designated to pick it up, someone picking up the horn in-person but asking to pay by any method other than cash, and selling a horn with PayPal friends-and-family.
Mike
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns.
Last edited by TrumpetMD on Tue Apr 25, 2023 6:20 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12665
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2023 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| TrumpetMD wrote: | Any transaction where the other person is asking for anything unusual should be considered a scam. This includes over-paying for any reason (as described by jhatpro in this thread), picking up the horn in-person but paying in any method other than cash, and selling a horn with PayPal friends-and-family.
Mike |
Nice summary. |
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jhatpro
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Mar 2002
Posts: 10204
Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 6:21 am Post subject: |
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What a day! I was targeted by three different scammers, all pursuing the same strategy: They send me a check for the horn plus a big chunk of dough for “the movers” who I’m supposed to pay. The check turns out to be fake, of course. Fortunately, sellers wiser than me than me here on TH and in my local network warned me to not fall for such a scheme.
_________________
Jim Hatfield
"The notes are there - find them.” Mingus
2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle |
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hup_d_dup
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Joined: 31 Aug 2009
Posts: 288
Location: Tewksbury, NJ
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 7:04 am Post subject: |
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When this has happened to me (twice) I insisted that the check be sent via FedEx.
That way they have to pay for overnight shipping.
Then I contact the "buyer" and say the delivery never came.
Fun.
Hup |
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kehaulani
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| Halflip wrote: |
Another option would be to tell the buyer that you will only accept cashier's checks or postal money orders. |
Nooooo Mister Bill.
That payment method is no longer bullet proof. That's a universal scam in is own right.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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jhahntpt
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 676
Location: Southington CT
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 10:08 am Post subject: |
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A lot of scammers use Zelle as their payment platform nowadays, but this is a classic scam.
I'm offended he didn't offer you a few $100 for your trouble on top!
_________________
Bb: Yamaha 9335NY Gen3
Bb: Yamaha 8310Z
C: Shires 4S/W1B
Piccolo: Yamaha 9830
Flugel: Yamaha 8315G
Cornet: York Eminence |
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ketch22
Regular Member
Joined: 05 Apr 2014
Posts: 45
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| Halflip wrote: |
Another option would be to tell the buyer that you will only accept cashier's checks or postal money orders. |
I would not recommend this. A few years ago a scammer sent me postal money orders that looked legitimate. He was communicating by e-mail, so I traced the IP address. It was a lithography/printing business out of Montreal. The PO's were fake. I still have them as a souvenir. I reported it to fraud divisions of police and PO, but nothing came of it - apparently it wasn't a big enough money value to spend the time investigating even with the IP address.
K22
_________________
"I see music as fluid architecture": Joni Mitchell
http://www.rupertslandbrass.ca |
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Halflip
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1937
Location: WI
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| ketch22 wrote: | | I would not recommend this. A few years ago a scammer sent me postal money orders that looked legitimate. He was communicating by e-mail, so I traced the IP address. It was a lithography/printing business out of Montreal. The PO's were fake. I still have them as a souvenir. |
Wow, that is nasty . . . and surprisingly sophisticated.
| ketch22 wrote: | | I reported it to fraud divisions of police and PO, but nothing came of it - apparently it wasn't a big enough money value to spend the time investigating even with the IP address. |
The one time that I was badly scammed, I learned that if the scam is under a certain value and there is significant distance between scammer and victim, law enforcement will be disinclined to invest much time or money in pursuing the case without really solid, easily obtained evidence (word against word doesn't 'cut it'). I am surprised, though, that a case involving counterfeit post office financial instruments wasn't viewed as something serious enough to pursue regardless of monetary value.
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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Halflip
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1937
Location: WI
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| kehaulani wrote: | | Halflip wrote: |
Another option would be to tell the buyer that you will only accept cashier's checks or postal money orders. |
Nooooo Mister Bill.
That payment method is no longer bullet proof. That's a universal scam in is own right. |
I'm glad you and ketch22 pointed this out. I wasn't aware. (I guess it's harder than ever to avoid Mr. Sluggo these days.  )
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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jophst
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 04 Jan 2003
Posts: 3139
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 11:30 am Post subject: |
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Absolute scam. As a former avid poster on this site, I used to expose several of these.
_________________
Bb - Yamaha Xeno 8335RGS
Picc - Yamaha 9830 w/PVA
Flugel - Yamaha Shew 6310Z
Laskey's 68MD,68C,PIC,68F,68DB |
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