Trying to identify my old Bach's era and model from a photo

[Rhondo]

Hello all

Around 1992 I got my first trumpet, a used lacquered Bach with a fair amount of wear to the lacquer.

From the fuzzy Polaroid photo here, you see it doesn't have the thumb saddle on the 1st slide, and that it's a standard configuration horn… I see pictures of 1935, '66, '70 and other early Bachs with the thumb saddle. Possibly they weren't original on some of those earlier horns.

I figure my old Bach was probably at least 20 years old at the time, which would date it 1972 or perhaps quite a bit earlier.

Does anyone know which year Strads didn't have the straddle?

From what I've heard the Mt Vernon Bachs were .020 gauge bell stock along with some of the early Elkharts, before the standard became .025 in the early '70s or so. Are current lightweight Bach 37 models .020?

I'm almost certain my horn was a Strad, but from the pic could it have been a student model? I think I may have paid around $600 for it in 1992, but again, not sure. It just occurred to me it may not have even been a 37 bell, though it seems likely.

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[F.E. Olds Nut]

That looks like a King 600 student trumpet, not a Bach
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Del Quadro "The Mother"

[Rhondo]

Sharpened photo:

[/img]

Now I'm questioning myself it it was a Bach!

Edit: I don’t know why I thought it had double bracing on the tuning slide either. Sheesh!

I remember my friend’s Yamaha at the time seemed to project a little better, but of 3 trumpets I was still chosen to do the lead part in a Christmas concert.

[LittleRusty]

I don’t think a thumb saddle has any bearing on the date of manufacture. It is my understanding that they can be configured by the buyer if they want something other than the factory default.

For instance both of my bachs Bbs have triggers. One is from 1972 the other 1996 or so.

[quikv6]

That is not a Stradivarius, and doesn't appear to be a Bach at all.

[cheiden]

Could it be a Bundy? That's what I was playing back in the early 70's.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

[Rhondo]

I have a closer picture of it I’m going to look for.

[mograph]

Here's a 1985 Bach Strad, and a 1980 King 601.


_________________
1985 Bach 37
1980 King 601 (it's bulletproof!)
1978 Couesnon flugelhorn
Playing for fun since 1979.
Fmr member 48th Highlanders of Canada Mil Band
Into that jazz devil music

[Rhondo]

[jengstrom]

FWIW, Strads did not have a first valve saddle until 1971, give or take a year. After that, they all had first valve slide saddles (or optional trigger). That change also included a change to the length of the slide, as well as a design change to a reversed slide. The original length had always caused the 4th line D to be flat, so they shortened it a bit to bring that note up. That made other notes a little sharp, so the purpose of the saddle was to correct that sharpness on the notes that needed it. On my Bachs, the 1-2 valve combo notes tend to be sharp, and that’s where the saddle comes in handy.

(I just remembered that for a few years before the slide design change, an optional saddle was available. The saddle couldn’t just be soldered to the slide like it is today because the original slide design had fixed, immovable tubing where the reversed slide is today. The saddle was attached to a rod which, in turn, extended out to the end of the first valve tubing, where the actual slide was. The slide itself was kinda like the first valve slide in your picture. I had one of these on my 1970 Bach C. I sold that horn to Terry Everson in college. Big mistake, but I digress…)

That said, the adjustable finger ring on the third valve slide in your picture is a giveaway that this is not a Strad. Could be the King model mentioned above, or a student model Bach. I’m not sure.

John
_________________
Bach 43*
Bach 72*
Bach Chicago C
Yamaha YTR-761 D/Eb
Kanstul 1525
Bach 196 picc

[Rhondo]

If it was a King, whatever version I had sounded pretty good. I wasn’t an advanced player, and coming back now I’m still not, but I could get a nice tone from that horn. It never had any mechanical issues either.

[Andy Cooper]

It's a King - probably the 600 model. Were the valve springs on the outside of the piston spring barrel? If so, it was .458 bore - if they were on the inside, then .462 bore - I'm pretty sure.

The identifier is the wide spacing of the 1st valve slide. Most, but not all Kings had that arrangement.

King knew how to make valves and slides - I thought the student horns played very well. Of course their pro horns were very nice too - if you like your trumpets on the crisp and bright side.

[Halflip]

[dr_trumpet]

[mograph]

[Andy Cooper]

Problems with the King 600 can usually be traced to the mouthpiece gap. OK - they are actually "gapless" but many will not allow a Bach mouthpiece to be inserted far enough giving a rather brash sound and intonation problems associated with too much gap. This is a problem with many Kings - they apparently never got the Selmer K-Modified memo and persisted in setting the gap to fit their proprietary mouthpiece shank. (Same problem with the cornets.)

The receiver is too thin to allow reaming so the only solution is to re-position the receiver.

I have had several pro level Kings with the wide 1st slide wrap - I actually thought it made A above the staff speak better. (The gold King leadpipe apparently has a taper similar to the Benge 3X so if you are a 25/37 Strad player, note placement might be a bit different and slots might feel wider. I'm more of a Benge guy so no problem. )
https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1527601

[Rhondo]

I didn’t have any of those issues with mine, but apparently there were different versions of the King 600, differing in quality.