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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9088 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 2:34 pm Post subject: Chet's comeback approach? |
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How did Chet Baker get his chops back after losing his teeth?
I know he played Long Tones, and he has referred to the other standard books, which may or may not just've been a short, glib answer. But what were his concepts of playing? How did he approach his playing in fundamental concepts rather than just the printed exercises, themselves? Has anyone seen this anyplace? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis." Attributed to Chet
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
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Jaw04 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2015 Posts: 903 Location: Bay Area, California
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Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2022 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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He has said that he couldn't get a sound at first, but just kept at it. Long tones, like you said. Just progressively getting back over time. He didn't take lessons or subscribe to an ideology/methodology. |
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GeorgeB Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2016 Posts: 1063 Location: New Glasgow, Nova Scotia
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Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2022 1:57 am Post subject: |
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What Jaw04 said is similar to what I read somewhere. I'm sure there is more to it than that and others here hopefully will chime in because you pose an interesting question, kehaulani.
George _________________ GeorgeB
1960s King Super 20 Silversonic
2016 Manchester Brass Custom
1938-39 Olds Recording
1942 Buescher 400 Bb trumpet
1952 Selmer Paris 21 B
1999 Conn Vintage One B flat trumpet
2020 Getzen 490 Bb
1962 Conn Victor 5A cornet |
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Brent Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Sep 2005 Posts: 1105 Location: St. Paul, MN
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9088 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2022 11:51 am Post subject: |
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Yes, I have seen that, Brent, thank you. What I was more interested in (although Long Tones are important) wasn't so much what he played, as how. Any special approach (Maggio, Gorden et al).
From how he answered the question, I get the impression he meant a very conventual approach. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis." Attributed to Chet
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet |
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craigtrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2007 Posts: 1191 Location: Louisville, KY
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Chet's drummer and good friend Artt Frank wrote two books about his time with Chet, one is called "The Missing Years" and it is all about the years Chet was getting himself back into shape for his comeback. Here is an excerpt I had underlined that may help:
_________________ "Run towards your problems, not from them"
Powell Custom Trumpet
1956 Martin Committee Deluxe
1950/60's Couesnon Monopole Flugel |
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Learson Regular Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2022 Posts: 18
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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That part about him developing three embouchures is really interesting. I wonder if a mere mortal like me could do that? |
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JonathanM Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 2020 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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Learson wrote: | That part about him developing three embouchures is really interesting. I wonder if a mere mortal like me could do that? |
Interesting thought, isn't it? I'm still trying to get one GOOD embouchure going. Incidentally, I've read that Mendez used alternate set-ups for the same reason; when he was became tired from long days, he said he'd switch to a different setup. I don't recall if his wording was the same as in this book, but as I recall it's the same basic concept. And I agree, Learson, it's thought provoking. _________________ Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18043*, 18043 Sterling Silver +, 18037 SterlingSilver+, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
Flugle: Strad 182
Puje: American Belle
Cornet: Olds Recording & Super |
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Jaw04 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Dec 2015 Posts: 903 Location: Bay Area, California
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Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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JonathanM wrote: | Learson wrote: | That part about him developing three embouchures is really interesting. I wonder if a mere mortal like me could do that? |
Interesting thought, isn't it? I'm still trying to get one GOOD embouchure going. Incidentally, I've read that Mendez used alternate set-ups for the same reason; when he was became tired from long days, he said he'd switch to a different setup. I don't recall if his wording was the same as in this book, but as I recall it's the same basic concept. And I agree, Learson, it's thought provoking. | Bud Herseth also spoke about moving the mouthpiece placement when he got fatigued. |
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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2616
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 1:42 am Post subject: |
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Sounds like he just worked hard at re-training himself to play with and learning the limits of his altered setup. Is it correct that he wasn't missing all his natural uppers, that he was missing a couple of the incisors on one side?
At some point dental implants became available, did he ever consider them or did he never have the money? _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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Halflip Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003 Posts: 1968 Location: WI
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:26 am Post subject: |
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Robert P wrote: | Is it correct that he wasn't missing all his natural uppers, that he was missing a couple of the incisors on one side? |
That was before he was brutally assaulted by thugs who broke all his teeth off.
Robert P wrote: | At some point dental implants became available, did he ever consider them or did he never have the money? |
The first modern dental implant was performed on a human in 1965. Given that a single tooth costs around $1,800 today (when the practice has become more commonplace and standardized), I doubt that he could have afforded a full set back in the 60's or 70's (although I guess they have ways of implanting a few 'anchor teeth' to be used as attachment points for bridgework). He probably didn't have many rich, charitable friends, either (and "Go Fund Me" wasn't around back then, let alone the internet). Finally, given his drug dependency, he undoubtedly had different priorities when it came to allocating funds. _________________ "He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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Riojazz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Dec 2006 Posts: 1020 Location: Mid-Hudson Valley, NY
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 9:27 am Post subject: |
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I heard him in a small club in the early 1980s. He did not play above middle C, but he still sounded amazing by constructing lovely lines. _________________ Matt Finley https://mattfinley.bandcamp.com/releases
Kanstul 1525 w/french, Shires Bb Destino Med & C trumpets, Schilke XA1 cornet, Schilke P5-4 picc, Yamaha soprano sax, Powell flute. Sanborn GR66MS, GR 66CT-Z, & Touvron-D. |
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Halflip Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003 Posts: 1968 Location: WI
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2023 10:08 am Post subject: |
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Riojazz wrote: | I heard him in a small club in the early 1980s. He did not play above middle C, but he still sounded amazing by constructing lovely lines. |
+1
Despite his embouchure limitations, I think he got better at building solos from a music theory perspective. Sometimes his selection of pivot points while navigating changes was just awe inspiring. _________________ "He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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markp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2005 Posts: 2815 Location: Coarsegold, CA
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Chet’s playing didn’t depend on technical proficiency. He could have picked up sax or piano. Or just stuck to singing. If you are Chet and just want to start blowing again after some horrible trauma, the physical issues are no barrier. He probably just started blowing for a while each day and the body/mind connection kicked in and he was off to the races in no time.
It’s ridiculous to think about Chet adhering to some classical regimen. |
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Robert P Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2013 Posts: 2616
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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Halflip wrote: | Robert P wrote: | Is it correct that he wasn't missing all his natural uppers, that he was missing a couple of the incisors on one side? |
That was before he was brutally assaulted by thugs who broke all his teeth off.
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Okay - I was a bit vague on the details, I didn't know he was missing teeth before he got beaten by drug dealers. I've seen pics of him missing one or two uppers, I thought that was the result of the infamous beating he got. _________________ Getzen Eterna Severinsen
King Silver Flair
Besson 1000
Bundy
Chinese C
Getzen Eterna Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Rotary Bb/A piccolo
Chinese Flugel |
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Aj Regular Member
Joined: 14 May 2006 Posts: 83
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 7:59 am Post subject: |
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I discovered Chet using a dual embouchure in this 1975 concert and found it very interesting so I searched and found this thread.
The video below clearly shows Chet using two embouchures. He gets a more fluffy tone and not much range with playing to one side and with his top lip protruding. Later in the fast ‘Mr B’ he plays more conventionally in his first solo, then back to the ‘red fleshy’ embouchure during trades.
He looks very undernourished in this clip too…
https://youtu.be/VGx67-CttaA?si=uMAxQQFV9AGcxnKY _________________ Mr Inbetween |
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Man Of Constant Sorrow Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Jun 2023 Posts: 488
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Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder what Miles thought of him.
_________________ Sub-Optimal Hillbilly Jazz |
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