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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9090 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:06 pm Post subject: Adam's "orthodox" Leadpipe exercise? |
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I've read numerous TH Forum threads and looked at a number of videos and I'm just confused. The information doesn't necessarily conflict in concept, what the Leadpipe is. Rather, it varies greatly in application.
Some recommend playing only the F-ish tone with as much purity and center you can, to arpeggios encompassing the lowest to the highest note possible, to even removing other slides and exercising from there.
I am not seeking the “best” way of playing it or permutations of the exercise, rather the most orthodox exercise as taught by Adam, himself. What did he say originally: one pure tone, extensive variations, what?
Thank you. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis." Attributed to Chet
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falado Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Mar 2009 Posts: 944 Location: Eastern NC
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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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Hi kehaulani, you might want to PM Nick Drozdoff about this. I studied with him when I was in Navy Band Great Lakes. He had me doing the lead pipe exercises and I don’t remember his explanations, but he teaches physics and talked at one time the theory of closed and open tubes. I used the exercise on new students so to get the tone and lip vibration feel naturally rather than buzzing a mouthpiece. The open tube causes lip vibration when blowing through a mouthpiece.
Dave _________________ FA LA DO (Ab: V/ii) MUCS, USN (Ret.)
Stomvi VR (Reeves) with VR II Bell
Bach 239 25A C, Blueprinted
Bach 37, Early Elkhart, Blueprinted
Kanstul Flugel
Getzen 4 valve Pic.
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PH Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5862 Location: New Albany, Indiana
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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:34 pm Post subject: Re: Adam's "orthodox" Leadpipe exercise? |
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kehaulani wrote: | I've read numerous TH Forum threads and looked at a number of videos and I'm just confused. The information doesn't necessarily conflict in concept, what the Leadpipe is. Rather, it varies greatly in application.
Some recommend playing only the F-ish tone with as much purity and center you can, to arpeggios encompassing the lowest to the highest note possible, to even removing other slides and exercising from there.
I am not seeking the “best” way of playing it or permutations of the exercise, rather the most orthodox exercise as taught by Adam, himself. What did he say originally: one pure tone, extensive variations, what?
Thank you. |
One pure tone. Hold it as steady as possible, accelerating the air through the sound and blowing the embouchure into place. Volume, quality of attack (or breath attack), timbre, etc. all varied according to the needs of individual students. Advanced students might do the same on one or two harmonics above the fundamental, but 90% of us only did the fundamental.
DO NOT PLAY ANY NOTES THAT ARE NOT SLOTTED AS THE (out of tune) HARMONICS OF THE PIPE!!! Don't bend pitches or play anything except (on a regular Bach Bb pipe) concert Eb, and for advanced students F (a 9th above), and possibly (for EXTREMELY advanced students) the C above that. Playing notes between the natural slots mother nature gave us is practicing playing "out of phase" with the acoustics.
"Big breath. Easy does it."
8-10 long tones on the fundamental and you put the slide in. You're ready to go. The majority of what I see people doing on the internet is NOT at all how we do it. It is actually antithetical to how we do it, and potentially counterproductive. Quackery. _________________ Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
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PH Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5862 Location: New Albany, Indiana
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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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And we NEVER talk about "buzzing" the leadpipe. We blow the pipe or we play the pipe.
We don't buzz the pipe. The pipe buzzes us. _________________ Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9090 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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That's what I was looking for. Thanks much! _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis." Attributed to Chet
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
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chrisroyal Regular Member
Joined: 08 Jun 2015 Posts: 26 Location: Washington, DC
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 4:47 am Post subject: |
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PH wrote: | And we NEVER talk about "buzzing" the leadpipe. We blow the pipe or we play the pipe.
We don't buzz the pipe. The pipe buzzes us. |
Do you ever blow the C trumpet pipe? Seems to help center the tone on C trumpet. I wonder if smaller pipe would help with smaller horns as well? _________________ Bach Bb and C trumpets
Schilke Bb, C, Eb, E, F , G and Picc
Schilke Bb, C, Eb cornets
Schagerl Bb, C and Picc rotors
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mafields627 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Nov 2001 Posts: 3779 Location: AL
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 5:44 am Post subject: |
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chrisroyal wrote: | PH wrote: | And we NEVER talk about "buzzing" the leadpipe. We blow the pipe or we play the pipe.
We don't buzz the pipe. The pipe buzzes us. |
Do you ever blow the C trumpet pipe? Seems to help center the tone on C trumpet. I wonder if smaller pipe would help with smaller horns as well? |
I've often wanted to apply blowing the pipe to a full band setting, but haven't pulled the trigger for a number of reasons. I don't know how producting it would be for low brass and the idea of inner trombone slides waving around unprotected makes me squeamish. _________________ --Matt--
No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher! |
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bach_again Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 2481 Location: Northern Ireland
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9090 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 8:24 am Post subject: |
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That's interesting watching Jery Hey trying to find the sweet spot.
Also, can one assume Rashawn's talking about the 190 37 and 43 series Bachs?
Reference to Leadpipe buzzing is at almost the very end of the atch. interview. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis." Attributed to Chet
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
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bach_again Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 2481 Location: Northern Ireland
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Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2022 10:10 am Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | That's interesting watching Jery Hey trying to find the sweet spot.
Also, can one assume Rashawn's talking about the 190 37 and 43 series Bachs?
I believe so
Reference to Leadpipe buzzing is at almost the very end of the atch. interview.
If you click the above video it should start at the correct segment - I was careful to make sure it did so that people would get to the relevant info in a timely manner.
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Anthony Miller Regular Member
Joined: 01 Nov 2016 Posts: 79 Location: Ryedale, North Yorkshire, UK
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Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Would the concert Eb on Bb trumpet be an Eb on cornet, also? |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9090 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:53 am Post subject: |
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Yes, but they would both be a Bb trumpet/cornet's F.
But it really doesn't matter, since the note is being produced without the horn. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis." Attributed to Chet
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3339 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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Anthony Miller wrote: | Would the concert Eb on Bb trumpet be an Eb on cornet, also? |
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When playing on just the mouthpiece & leadpipe - with the main tuning slide disconnected -
The pitch of the note depends on the length of of the leadpipe - if the leadpipes are of the same length, then the pitch would be about the same.
But my understanding is that the actual pitch is not an important issue, and there should not be any attempt to manipulate the pitch to match a particular note's frequency.
The goal of the leadpipe exercise is to learn to produce a good resonant SOUND - regardless of the precise pitch of the sound. And perhaps to be able to produce good sounding intervals of that resonant sound.
It is just a coincidence that the pitch on leadpipe is approximately Eb. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:26 am Post subject: |
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Anthony Miller wrote: | Would the concert Eb on Bb trumpet be an Eb on cornet, also? |
The pitch is dependent on the length of the tube. Just like a pipe organ _________________ Bill Bergren |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:28 am Post subject: |
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JayKosta wrote: | Anthony Miller wrote: | Would the concert Eb on Bb trumpet be an Eb on cornet, also? |
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When playing on just the mouthpiece & leadpipe - with the main tuning slide disconnected -
The pitch of the note depends on the length of of the leadpipe - if the leadpipes are of the same length, then the pitch would be about the same.
But my understanding is that the actual pitch is not an important issue, and there should not be any attempt to manipulate the pitch to match a particular note's frequency.
The goal of the leadpipe exercise is to learn to produce a good resonant SOUND - regardless of the precise pitch of the sound. And perhaps to be able to produce good sounding intervals of that resonant sound.
It is just a coincidence that the pitch on leadpipe is approximately Eb. |
The most resonant sound occurs when the lips are allowed to vibrate at the same frequency of the standing wave. _________________ Bill Bergren |
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Anthony Miller Regular Member
Joined: 01 Nov 2016 Posts: 79 Location: Ryedale, North Yorkshire, UK
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:07 am Post subject: |
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Thanks - so it would be the same note on cornet as the length of tube is the same as trumpet I believe.
Billy B wrote: | Anthony Miller wrote: | Would the concert Eb on Bb trumpet be an Eb on cornet, also? |
The pitch is dependent on the length of the tube. Just like a pipe organ |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9090 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:22 am Post subject: |
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But don't overlook the most important point - finding the most freely resonant place at approximately a Concert Eb. _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis." Attributed to Chet
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet |
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Billy B Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Feb 2004 Posts: 6130 Location: Des Moines
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:35 am Post subject: |
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kehaulani wrote: | But don't overlook the most important point - finding the most freely resonant place at approximately a Concert Eb. |
I can only speak for myself. Adam had me play a concert Eb in every lesson. _________________ Bill Bergren |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9090 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:51 am Post subject: |
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That's assuming that the Leadpipe used for the exercise is attached to a standard trumpet. If the player is exercising on a detached Leadpipe, it's, perhaps, slightly different in length and so will be the "core" pitch.
Not intending to nit-pick, just to clarify my use of te word approximately . _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis." Attributed to Chet
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet |
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