What you ‘strongly dislike’ about those Yamahas!

[Rhondo]

In fairness to Bach (re my previous post), I thought this question should be asked about its main competitor as well.

We know they both make great horns, but this is just about some people’s not so favorable personal impressions, so whine away! Hopefully this one will be almost as interesting 🤔…

I know less about Yamaha models, hence the more general topic…

[Stradbrother]

I've always been a fan of Yamaha, yet I have never owned own personally, save for my very first student horn.

In my opinion, the Yamaha v. Bach discussion can all be boiled down to quality and consistency and the "it" factor.

For example, the worst Yamaha is an 8. The best Yamaha is a 9.

On the flip side, the worst Bach can be a 3-4. The best can be a 10.

To me, Yamahas have always lacked personality when I play them. Do other players sound incredible on them? Absolutely. Dear lord, thopse other players make Yamahas sound like the best in the world.

Buyt for me, Yamahas always sound like a midi file. Totally fine, just missing something.

Yamahas, to me, are like a Toyota Corolla. Absolutely fine, reliable, never an issue, it'll take you anywhere. But it almost feels sterile.
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Don Miles Cinci
1947 Martin Committee M bore
Bach 229 Chicago
Bach 183 Flugelhorn
Bach LB 239 Eb/D Long Bell
Bach 184 Cornet
DEG Signature 2000 piccolo

[RandyTX]

while this knock, about a 'lack of personality' to the sound might have been true on some of the older Yamahas, with, supposedly, 'hydroformed' bells, and even described as 'dead sounding' sometimes, that doesn't seem to be at all the case with their newer offerings in recent years.

I'm now playing on a yamaha Bb trumpet, flugel, and cornet, and they are all really nice horns, especially the trumpet, which is better than any Bb I've ever held in my hand before. I have a schlike picc, a bach Eb/D, and a Bach C, all of which I'm happy with, but the horns I use pretty much all the time have all gone over to the 'dark side' if you're a loyal Bach fan, like I used to be.

Not only does the Yamaha Bb sound as good as my Bach 37, to the point people that have heard me on it want to know what it is, and where they can buy one, as they prefer it over the Bach I used to play in those settings. It's not just the sound, but it is shockingly more in tune up and down across the range, slots better, and is infinitely more inviting to play about the staff.

This 'yamahas don't sound right' thing is a throwback to quite a while back now, and bears further investigation with new trials, if you haven't played one made in the last few years.
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"Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away."

[Dale Proctor]

I’ve owned one Yamaha, an older 2330 cornet, and I didn’t like it. I played a friend’s newer one a few years later and it was great. I guess that shows that they improved along the way. To me, a good horn is a good horn, and most manufacturers have produced a few clunkers along the way, too. I have 4 Bachs, a couple Olds, a couple Conns, and a few others, so I’m not attached to any specific brand.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[kehaulani]

Which is better, Bach, or Yamaha or . . (cryptic comment) me?
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
Benge 3X Cornet

[Rhondo]

[yourbrass]

Yamaha continues to improve, and they are the company that will ,possibly, compete w/Conn-Selmer for the market.
A lot of the top players are playing them. They have a worldwide distribution system and Conn-Selmer is going to have to spend some serious money to compete w/that.
I say that having seen their new facility in SoCal and talking w/other repair people from other countries.
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"Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/

[cbtj51]

I bought my first Yamaha in the early 80s after playing a close friend's brand spankin' new 6335S, the then latest pro offering from Yamaha. My copy was very early in the production, (just a few serial #s from his) among the first 2000 made. It was a great horn... I "loaned" it to my old college roommate when I stopped playing for a while. He played the @&*$ out of it to the point that when I started playing again and got it back, it was no longer the player that it had once been, ridden very hard and put up extremely wet (a literal Hurricane Katrina survivor)! He offered me a barely used Yamaha 8335RGS that didn't suit him in its place!

That ended up being a great sounding horn, but not until Jim Becker worked some voodoo on it! The only drawback was the weight, apparently a big deal to me (both of my goto horns are lightweights), so I didn't play it much. My wife took it over as her daily driver a year or so ago! The only heavier horn that we have between us is her 90s Bach 37. The weight of either doesn't seem to bother her a bit!

Would I buy a new Yamaha today? Only if I had a need...

Life is Short, find the Joy in it!

Mike
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'71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces

[chase1973]

Back in the '70's and '80's when Yamaha horns were just breaking through, the saying was a Yamaha was the poor man's Schilke.

Now that Yamaha has expanded their model line-up and vastly improved their craftsmanship, they are some of the finest assembled horns around but to me have always lacked some type of personality. Well-built but no soul. That's the best way I can describe them.

However, to this day, the old Yamaha 731 Flugelhorn's are still my favorite Flugel model.

[kehaulani]

On saxes, which I played for twenty years, Yamahas always seemed to me to have a lack of depth in the sound. FWIW, I settled on a Selmer Alto and Keilwerth Tenor, respectively. Meaty.

On trumpets, for the models I want to play, to me, there also wasn't the same depth of core I could get from a Bach or Benge. But these Yamahas weren't "soulless" and not as superficial as the saxes.

I now play a Yamaha trumpet and there's a lot you can do with focused mental imagery and mouthpieces that can overcome this tone problem. To be honest, the Shew is the lightest horn I could find - I have some medical/physical problems - so am using that. I'm not satisfied with the sound.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
"Well, even if I could play like Wynton, I wouldn't play like Wynton." Chet Baker

Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Selmer K-Modified Light Trumpet (for sale)
Benge 3X Cornet

[Bethmike]

[Stradbrother]

[Stradbrother]

[Stradbrother]

[Mac Gollehon]

Around 1980 or 1981 I was invited by Bob McCoy to demo the Yamaha prototypes at SIR the large room. The Yamaha president and others were there as well as WyntonMarsalis and John Glasel and 2 others I can’t recall. On my turn to try out the 4 prototypes I remarked that the horns responded well but were about as interesting in tonal spectrum as sugarless ice cream. Wynton made a similar but more subtle assessment during his demo of the horn. At that time he played a Bach and I was playing Benge CG. I complimented them on thier beautiful quad case as I left. A few years later I was featured at NY Brass Conference with my band. Prior to my performance they came to me and handed me two of their latest Heavy Wall models and I agreed to play them in my show. They put up thier logo banner onstage as I played both horns in the performance. And as soon as I finished they said thank you and packed the horns up as they offered me an artist discount. I said no thanks as I was still not impressed. I’m still here and quite active Yamaha and I invite you to impress me!

[Manuel de los Campos]

I bought a few Yamaha trumpets, ytr 6310z, 8310z, a 4335g and a vintage 734.
Both the Z models I liked but in the end I prefer trumpets with a 37-alike bell so I sold the both of them.
The 4335g I could buy for little, I bought it out of curiousity. Good instrument but after I took it to a rehearsel I sold it: nice sounding horn but the goldbrass bell offers little to no projection, very dissappointing to me for session work.
The 734 I bought out of curiousity as well to compare it to my late Vincent Bach early Elkhart since they where made in the same period.
Well, the 734 is a good instrument but soundwise it could not stand in the shadow of the Bach 37. Nice try from Yamaha but they had oviously a long way to go.
A friend has Yamaha 6345 with a yellow brass bell which I like very much. Good valves, easy player with a great sound. Kind of underrated.

All Yamaha's I had where suffering from red rot, I think they are not made form durable material; please don't start telling me story's about bad maintaining, body acidity etc. etc., I have seen enough vintage, old well used trumpets from other makes that are free of any red rot

I don't hate Yamaha but I just don't see them as the Holy Grail, there are many trumpet out there that can outplay (and outlive) every Yamaha
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Technology alone is a poor substitute for experience. (Richard Sachs)

[stuartissimo]

The ones I’ve tried are decent players, but they lack a certain ‘wow factor’.

As for Yamaha flugels, not a fan. A while back I got to try a few Yamaha flugelhorns along some made by Adams. The Yamahas were ok, but they didn’t have the resonance that the Adams flugels had (or the Buescher for that matter).

Yamaha’s consistency is commendable, and the instruments they make are good. But as an amateur who plays for fun, not work, I prefer that big stupid grin on my face that I get when I pick up an Olds.
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1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mpc

[Stradbrother]

I will say, as a non-Yamaha player, their most underrated horn is by far the 9435 John Hagstrom C cornet.

So amazing. Uses a standard trumpet shank mouthpiece. Gives you a perfect delicate tone for orchestral ballet, with the easy-switch capabilities of using a standard trumpet mouthpiece.

Its the perfect horn for doubling on C cornet for orchestra.

But again, 9 times out of 10, I just believe the Getzen custom series C cornet just sounds better.

Yamaha is probably more consistent, more in-tune, matches better, but other makes just sing a little better in my opinion.
_________________
Don Miles Cinci
1947 Martin Committee M bore
Bach 229 Chicago
Bach 183 Flugelhorn
Bach LB 239 Eb/D Long Bell
Bach 184 Cornet
DEG Signature 2000 piccolo

[yourbrass]

[Trumpjerele]

I agree with the general criticism of Yamaha. A bit bland sounding.

And about the durability, I was surprised when I took my Yamaha 8310Z to a luthier, bought in 2013, as soon as he saw it he thought he would have to replace the tuning pump, finally it turned out that the wear was superficial, but it left me worried.

It has also lost some lacquer in the hand area. In that regard, I was hoping for better durability.

Another criticism, I don't like their marketing department, their way of promoting a new model is to sink the old one to "sell" the improvements of the new one. If it were true the early pro yamahas would be junk, and although I haven't tried them, I have seen many good opinions over the years about those triple digit Yamaha's .

More criticism, their valves, not bad, but certainly not excellent.

To make up for the publication, I like Yamaha all the same, and I'm satisfied with the instrument. I prefer it to the Bach 37 that I borrowed from a friend for a month, it sounded great, but very hard to play.

When I was learning to play the saxophone, everyone recommends Yamaha for a reliable and solid student instrument, so I bought a YTS 23. Another good buy. Yamaha does not fail.

But if I had to buy an instrument today to replace my Yamaha 8310Z, I would look for a Carolbrass, I think it's the best value for money brand today. I would really like to try one.
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Notice!!! Amateur musician without formal studies

Trumpet: Yamaha 8310Z
Mouthpiece: the great Yamaha11b4

Sax tenor: Yamaha YTS 23
Mouthpiece: Otto link tone edge