Opera Recording Studio - Attention Trent Austin & Pfrank

valvepimp · Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2003 8:05 pm Post subject:

No, I am not describing what Placido Domingo's soundproof lair must be like. Rather, I am considering picking up one of these three Olds cornets. I have decided against the Super (too long, possibly not cornet-like enough) and the Special (too similar to the Ambassador in design which can be had for considerably less) and the Mendez, which is both a long model cornet (that resembles a trumpet) and is extremely rare.

I really like Olds trumpets, and I bet I will like their cornets too. So Trent and Pfrank...I have read in this forum that you own an Opera Cornet and a Studio cornet, respectively. Please go into as much detail as you can about the playing characteristics and sound of each instrument. I am especially curious if the Opera has a large bore feel to it. I have read about how free-blowing you regard it, but does it feel hard to fill as a large bore trumpet sometimes can? I know you use it for Jazz improv, but would you say its characteristics are also desirable by someone who wants to use it for things such as The Carnival of Venice? And Pfrank - I know that the Olds Studio trumpet is supposed to be Olds' darkest sounding, most cornet-like trumpet. Where does that place their Studio cornet? Is it especially dark, or just normally dark? I understand your Studio is from 1960 - was the Studio made in that year a nickel silver one like their later models, and does it have a first valve trigger? Or is it lacquer with a silver bell like the older Studio trumpets and without a first valve trigger? Did both of you eBay those horns, or did you use another source?

I would also like to hear from anyone who owns an Olds Recording cornet. I know some of you do, but I can't recall who. Please describe for me what the Recording cornet sounds and plays like.

Needless to say, I would like to hear from everyone who has an opinion, not just the two cats I called for in the subject line.

I am really enjoying this new cornet forum, and look forward to picking up my first pro cornet ever.
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TrentAustin · Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 2:06 pm Post subject:

Hi Valve,

I am totally digging my Olds Opera Cornet!

A word to the wise if people are thinking about buying an OPERA model.... they're HUGE. My horn has a .468 bore and a HUGE bell flair. Since I'm doing a lot of playing daily (6-8 hours usually) it's not that much of an issue for me, but for the majority of people who might not play that much or are used to the smaller bores I probably wouldn't recommend it.

I absolutely love the sound, and depth of this horn. It produces a HUGE sound and with my Curry 1 1/4 DC I get a really dark sound. More flugelly than cornetty. With my Bach 3C I can play all the Arban's stuff with that Vintage sound (and added efficiency with the more efficient 3C cup!)

If you could pick up a Recording cornet or even an nice Ambassador. I've played a few Ambassadors that play well... not as well as my opera, but nice! I do like having the 1st valve trigger to make those d's in tune. It's a nice added bonus!

Feel free to ask me more questions about the horns.

Best,

Trent
http://www.trentaustin.com
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BeboppinFool · Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 7:01 pm Post subject:

valvepimp · Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 7:55 pm Post subject:

That's a very hospitable offer, Rich, especially seeing as how you're gonna let me roll my own mouthpiece, so to speak. Can you tell me where it's being held?

Trent - will you have your Opera cornet handy at the Boston Trumpet Fest if I manage to make it up there in a couple of weeks? Even if you don't, the prospect of trying your Large Red may still be enough of a lure, and there will be other Eclipses for me to sample as well, I understand, is that correct?
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TrentAustin · Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 8:49 pm Post subject:

I plan on bringing my Opera, CT flug, Schilke p5-4, and of course, my Large Red! You (and anyone else who comes) can toot to your heart's content on any of my horns.

I can't wait for the fest!

Best,

Trent
http://www.trentaustin.com

EDIT: Yes, valve, Bruce will have the entire line of Eclipse products (including a brand new "showstopper" that Leigh hasn't told even us what it is) as well as Lawler/Callet/etc. You can search for more details of what's going on here on the TH (run a search for "Northeast Trumpetfest") or at http://www.northernbrass.com

I hope to see you there!
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[ This Message was edited by: TrentAustin on 2003-10-17 23:54 ]

[ This Message was edited by: TrentAustin on 2003-10-17 23:55 ]

nieuwguyski · Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 5:18 pm Post subject:

The Olds Ambassador and Recording cornets also have .468" bores. Obviously, many factors other than bore size influence how a trumpet or cornet blows. Trent mentioned how large the bell flare is on his Opera cornet, which would be one of those additional factors. I've never played an Opera cornet and haven't played an Ambassador in some time, but I have tried one specific Recording several times now, toying with the idea of buying it. It's a great cornet, but doesn't play any better (for me) than my Conn 80A.
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bgwbold · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 7:19 pm Post subject:

On the Olds Recording cornet, the trigger tunes the whole horn, doesn't it? That is something unique to the Recording if it held true through the entire run.

Mike

BeboppinFool · Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2003 7:39 pm Post subject:

bgwbold · Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:47 am Post subject:

Rich, there's actually a stub end to the "tuning" slide (but really in the bell tubing) for fixed tuning settings, but the trigger contraption is mounted ahead of it in what is probably the most convenient place for it. I just assumed they were all made like that. The bell is routed out of the third valve casing and then loops around the horn to the bell bow, so it is a tuning bell mechanism. It makes too much sense. No wonder it didn't catch on. =]

Mike

nieuwguyski · Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2003 8:42 pm Post subject:

Mike,

On the one Recording cornet I've played, the trigger moves the third valve slide, not the main slide. I never thought to check if the main slide had a removeable crook like a Bach third valve slide, but the trigger was definitely connected to the third valve slide.
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bgwbold · Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 2:50 am Post subject:

Email me if you would like to exchange photos. My third slide has a screw bracket on it and moves pretty freely. I will go back and look at it later today, but the tuning slide is set a little lower than the third slide on this version of the cornet. That is probably why my trigger is attached there. It would be more of a reach for it to be attached to the third slide. Thanks for the info!

Mike

nieuwguyski · Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 8:46 am Post subject:

From poking around Alan Rouse's "Olds Central" site, it appears that the trigger configuration was changed between 1957 and 1962. In '57 it's described as a third-valve trigger, while in '62 it's a "tuning slide trigger tuning mechanism."
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J. Notso Nieuwguyski

bgwbold · Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 9:35 am Post subject:

That makes sense. Mine is 60s. Many thanks.

Mike

pfrank · Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 11:18 am Post subject:

VP, I have a Studio cornet from 1960. It's the same design as in the 40s and 50s, same art-decco appointments (like small bumpers on the slides, decorations on the valves and the long spit valve lever). They changed shortly after to the more common wrap; like the Ambasador or Opera.

My cornet has the Olds flugalhorn size reciever, so I use Kanstul flug bbs with a Warburton 4D, 4SV or a Stork 5FLS. (shallow flugalhorn). The wrap on mine is the triple (Z shape plus 1) bend like a Holton Clarke or the old era Olds Super cornet. The 1st wrap is an inch and 3/4 or so (like a peashooter), the next is 3/4 inch and the last the same tightness as the 3rd valve slide, so it's tighter and tighter turns just on the lead pipe.

I am a believer that shape as well as size affects playing characteristics, and the more turning, the more resistance. Or it seems that the resistance is closer to your head... The large reciever is a help opening up the resistance created by all that pipe-turning. It slots differently than any other horn I've played...they are closer. When I first played it I said "this thing plays itself", and even the drummer in the band I'm in commented on how I seemed to get around on it easier than on my other horns. He was probably telling me to play less notes, but I missed his point because I'm not that smart.
Missing notes on this horn is a greater danger though, and I find that especially in the upper register I have to be singing the note (in my head) I want to hit it. Like a soft high A as a 1st note... never easy, but more difficult with the small slots.

The bell is nickle (denser than brass) and smaller than my 77 Benge trumpet. The valves are heavy and they float like a butterfly. The horn feels very solid and well made. The tone is generally bright, but it has depth. The Stork 5FLS produces a nice jazz tone and the resistance on the 22 throat is perfect. A Warburton 4D26, Kanstul 117bb is orchestral-bright on the '60 Studio. A Warburton 4SC is savagely bright, almost lead trumpet bright. If I had to limit myself to one of my horns, it would be this one because of it's versatility and old-world craftsmanship. At some point I may have a tuning hook added to the 1st slide (they would have to remove the bumper for that)(no way to add a 3rd slide hook) but really, I don't find intonation to be much an issue. The sax player is out of tune so much more...

valvepimp · Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 2:15 pm Post subject:

Thank you pfrank, for that very informative and highly detailed explanation. I am assuming from your description that your horn looks exactly like the one in this eBay auction, yes?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2567857552&category=41396

The Buy It Now price seems a bit too high, and even the opening bid is a little too steep, but from what you describe yours to be like, maybe someone would find it worthwhile at that price.
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pfrank · Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:29 am Post subject:

Yeah that's the one. Alaska seems to do nice work and for under $600 it's reasonable (depending on how much money you have laying around...) Mine has a raw bell but allot of the lacquer on the valves and tubing is intact; it's almost eggplant colored. So my Studio is brass, nickle and eggplant. That makes it "tone balanced" I think. It doesn't eliminate discontinuities, though. Without discontinuities, I'd dissapear.