• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Schilke Handcraft trumpet?


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
sounds7
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 635
Location: New Orleans

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

augustinemelecio wrote:

His not liking the horn had nothing to do with some comment on here. Some people don't know what they have. I've played on Commitee horns and they are nowhere comparable to today's horns. The slotting, compression, valves, sound quality and intonation are better on today's horns. People who play on older horns do it for nostalgia or comfort but in all honesty are limiting themselves on horns like the old Commitees.
It's too bad people are too selfish and have no integrity these days. When you make a commitment, you should honor it. If you base your decisions off of comments you see in a blog from someone who is not even involved, you'll go through life chasing your tail, going in circles because business decisions should always be made with your brain, not on emotion. Thats why Botti is who he is and others are not.


I think there are some horns that can compete for certain types of music but people get Martin Committees for more than Nostalgia. I have had Getzen , Kanstul and everything else and my Committee is still the last horn I would ever sell.
All these horns passed through my door this year and all of them failed to make me want to sell my Martin:

http://www.trumpetmaster.com/vb/f209/i-am-selling-quite-few-horns-67215.html

Because the committee is a better horn even by todays standards. There is a reason both Adams and Schilke are cashing in on their "Martin Committee" affiliation/likeness. The trumpet is legendary and so many trumpet players are on record from Miles to Botti that sure didnt sound like they had any limitations.
_________________
47 Martin Committee #3
Buescher lightweight 400 228
Buescher lightweight 400 217
Taylor/Harrelson/MAW
Warburton model 235
Stomvi Mambo #5
Conn constellation 38a cor.
Courtois 301 Orchestra C
Yamaha Custom 9830 pic
Yamaha 731 /Harrelson mod
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
HERMOKIWI
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Dec 2008
Posts: 2578

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

augustinemelecio wrote:
I've played on Commitee horns and they are nowhere comparable to today's horns. The slotting, compression, valves, sound quality and intonation are better on today's horns. People who play on older horns do it for nostalgia or comfort but in all honesty are limiting themselves on horns like the old Commitees.


I'll generally agree with the first sentence of the above comment. The fact that vintage Committee horns are nowhere comparable to today's horns explains the massive effort and investment Schilke has made to create a comparable horn. There have been many threads here on TH discussing what modern horn, if any, is comparable to a vintage Committee. If reproducing the vintage Committee characteristics wasn't desirable no one would be asking for modern comparables.

As for slotting, it's different strokes for different folks. In some situations, jazz improvisation in particular, loose slots can be a huge benefit. In terms of compression and valves, the standards haven't changed, modern horns are no better or worse than vintage horns. Sound quality? It's a matter of taste. If you want the sound of a vintage Committee, but no other horn produces that sound, how is it that the sound of other horns is better? As for intonation, all trumpets inherently play some notes out of tune. That's why we have slide adjustment rings/hooks.

Wayne Bergeron and Willie Murillo were at my house and played some of the 48 horns in my collection. When Wayne played my 1933 King Silvertone he commented, "This horn is like a modern horn." He commented that the only improvement in trumpets since then is that, "Maybe the scale is a little more even."

People play these old horns for more than just nostalgia. They play them because they're great horns. One thing about the vintage horns with the smaller bores (.438 - .453) is that, generally, they're easier to play well than modern horns with bigger bores (.460 - .470). They're more responsive and take less effort. On the downside, they're easier to overblow.

In terms of sound, I know of no modern horn that is as naturally bright as my Conn 40B and 48B Vocabells, and nothing sounds like my Martin Committee Deluxe. Also, the valves are like butter on those horns. So much for the theory that there's been some major improvement in valve action over the years. Maybe horns have improved one horn to another over the years but, overall, the quality of the best vintage horns is equal to the quality of the best horns being made today and, as is the case with the Committee, some vintage horns have qualities not found in modern horns. Maybe the Schilke Handcraft has brought those qualities forward into modern times. We'll see.

The next time I'm in Chicago I'm going to make it a point to visit the Schilke factory and play the new Handcraft.

I think it only fair to say, as a qualifier to the above, that I've never met a trumpet I didn't like in some way. There is a very broad range of qualities over the horns in my collection but each horn has its own unique personality and there's something to like in each one.
_________________
HERMOKIWI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
augustinemelecio
Regular Member


Joined: 31 Dec 2009
Posts: 17
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HERMOKIWI wrote:
augustinemelecio wrote:
I've played on Commitee horns and they are nowhere comparable to today's horns. The slotting, compression, valves, sound quality and intonation are better on today's horns. People who play on older horns do it for nostalgia or comfort but in all honesty are limiting themselves on horns like the old Commitees.


I'll generally agree with the first sentence of the above comment. The fact that vintage Committee horns are nowhere comparable to today's horns explains the massive effort and investment Schilke has made to create a comparable horn. There have been many threads here on TH discussing what modern horn, if any, is comparable to a vintage Committee. If reproducing the vintage Committee characteristics wasn't desirable no one would be asking for modern comparables.

As for slotting, it's different strokes for different folks. In some situations, jazz improvisation in particular, loose slots can be a huge benefit. In terms of compression and valves, the standards haven't changed, modern horns are no better or worse than vintage horns. Sound quality? It's a matter of taste. If you want the sound of a vintage Committee, but no other horn produces that sound, how is it that the sound of other horns is better? As for intonation, all trumpets inherently play some notes out of tune. That's why we have slide adjustment rings/hooks.

Wayne Bergeron and Willie Murillo were at my house and played some of the 48 horns in my collection. When Wayne played my 1933 King Silvertone he commented, "This horn is like a modern horn." He commented that the only improvement in trumpets since then is that, "Maybe the scale is a little more even."

People play these old horns for more than just nostalgia. They play them because they're great horns. One thing about the vintage horns with the smaller bores (.438 - .453) is that, generally, they're easier to play well than modern horns with bigger bores (.460 - .470). They're more responsive and take less effort. On the downside, they're easier to overblow.

In terms of sound, I know of no modern horn that is as naturally bright as my Conn 40B and 48B Vocabells, and nothing sounds like my Martin Committee Deluxe. Also, the valves are like butter on those horns. So much for the theory that there's been some major improvement in valve action over the years. Maybe horns have improved one horn to another over the years but, overall, the quality of the best vintage horns is equal to the quality of the best horns being made today and, as is the case with the Committee, some vintage horns have qualities not found in modern horns. Maybe the Schilke Handcraft has brought those qualities forward into modern times. We'll see.

The next time I'm in Chicago I'm going to make it a point to visit the Schilke factory and play the new Handcraft.

I think it only fair to say, as a qualifier to the above, that I've never met a trumpet I didn't like in some way. There is a very broad range of qualities over the horns in my collection but each horn has its own unique personality and there's something to like in each one.



You make some good points and I guess I'm not really saying they weren't good at the time they were made but inherent to the fact that they are vintage there are a lot of adjustments and or improvements you have to make to get them up to snuff at times. Whether it be replating the horn or valve casing, adding rings on the first and third slide, changing the backbore etc. This is not always the case but most of the time and when you add that to the cost of the horn, it gets pricey AND more times than not you'll need another horn for more "legit" stuff. Whereas if you get something like a Bergeron L.A. Yamaha trumpet, you get a horn that is pretty versitle because of modern technology and techniques. Not to say any new horn sounds better than a vintage because it IS about your taste, they normally play better and are more in tune, especially a Schilke. I hear what you are saying about slotting yet what happens when you are not playing jazz? I want my horn to lock in. If you are up on your lip flexibilities and maybe use a not so flat rim on your mouthpiece, getting a horn that has loose slotting is unnecessary. If someone is lucky enough to own more than one Bb along with a flugel, C trumpet etc., thats great but its not necessary with todays horns. But I have to agree, vintage horns have personality. But with me, I like to be the personality. All I want my horn to do is portray it, not fight me on it.
_________________
Yamaha YTR 6310z
Yamaha YTR 8445
Yamaha YCR 233
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
sounds7
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 635
Location: New Orleans

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I do need another horn for legit stuff, thats why I have the 2 Courtois trumpets. I could see that being the case with modern trumpets as well though and don't see it as a problem that was only in the past. I don't think you would use the Schilke handcraft on every style of music either. Everything is a compromise somewhere. As for spending money getting the old horns up to snuff, yes I did spend money (Melk redid the valves) but it was worth every penny.
_________________
47 Martin Committee #3
Buescher lightweight 400 228
Buescher lightweight 400 217
Taylor/Harrelson/MAW
Warburton model 235
Stomvi Mambo #5
Conn constellation 38a cor.
Courtois 301 Orchestra C
Yamaha Custom 9830 pic
Yamaha 731 /Harrelson mod
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
augustinemelecio
Regular Member


Joined: 31 Dec 2009
Posts: 17
Location: Chicago, IL

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sounds7 wrote:
Yeah I do need another horn for legit stuff, thats why I have the 2 Courtois trumpets. I could see that being the case with modern trumpets as well though and don't see it as a problem that was only in the past. I don't think you would use the Schilke handcraft on every style of music either. Everything is a compromise somewhere. As for spending money getting the old horns up to snuff, yes I did spend money (Melk redid the valves) but it was worth every penny.


I'm not endorsing the Schilke Handcraft. What I am saying is that on all the vintage horns I have played, they are really stuffy. Some are smaller bored and some have a small bell flare. The Schilke Handcraft prototype I played on had a larger bell flare but to me spread the sound too much. I haven't played the final product. For me, I want my trumpet to sound like a trumpet, my cornet to sound like a cornet and flugelhorn to sound like a flugelhorn. Any style manipulation comes from me and the mouthpiece. If I want a bigger sound, I use a bigger cup and etc. The mouthpiece produces the sound, the horn just amplifies it, as we all know.
_________________
Yamaha YTR 6310z
Yamaha YTR 8445
Yamaha YCR 233
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Retlaw
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 3263
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HERMOKIWI wrote:
augustinemelecio wrote:
I've played on Commitee horns and they are nowhere comparable to today's horns. The slotting, compression, valves, sound quality and intonation are better on today's horns. People who play on older horns do it for nostalgia or comfort but in all honesty are limiting themselves on horns like the old Commitees.


I'll generally agree with the first sentence of the above comment. The fact that vintage Committee horns are nowhere comparable to today's horns explains the massive effort and investment Schilke has made to create a comparable horn. There have been many threads here on TH discussing what modern horn, if any, is comparable to a vintage Committee. If reproducing the vintage Committee characteristics wasn't desirable no one would be asking for modern comparables.

As for slotting, it's different strokes for different folks. In some situations, jazz improvisation in particular, loose slots can be a huge benefit. In terms of compression and valves, the standards haven't changed, modern horns are no better or worse than vintage horns. Sound quality? It's a matter of taste. If you want the sound of a vintage Committee, but no other horn produces that sound, how is it that the sound of other horns is better? As for intonation, all trumpets inherently play some notes out of tune. That's why we have slide adjustment rings/hooks.

Wayne Bergeron and Willie Murillo were at my house and played some of the 48 horns in my collection. When Wayne played my 1933 King Silvertone he commented, "This horn is like a modern horn." He commented that the only improvement in trumpets since then is that, "Maybe the scale is a little more even."

People play these old horns for more than just nostalgia. They play them because they're great horns. One thing about the vintage horns with the smaller bores (.438 - .453) is that, generally, they're easier to play well than modern horns with bigger bores (.460 - .470). They're more responsive and take less effort. On the downside, they're easier to overblow.

In terms of sound, I know of no modern horn that is as naturally bright as my Conn 40B and 48B Vocabells, and nothing sounds like my Martin Committee Deluxe. Also, the valves are like butter on those horns. So much for the theory that there's been some major improvement in valve action over the years. Maybe horns have improved one horn to another over the years but, overall, the quality of the best vintage horns is equal to the quality of the best horns being made today and, as is the case with the Committee, some vintage horns have qualities not found in modern horns. Maybe the Schilke Handcraft has brought those qualities forward into modern times. We'll see.

The next time I'm in Chicago I'm going to make it a point to visit the Schilke factory and play the new Handcraft.

I think it only fair to say, as a qualifier to the above, that I've never met a trumpet I didn't like in some way. There is a very broad range of qualities over the horns in my collection but each horn has its own unique personality and there's something to like in each one.


Did you get a chance to try them at Schilke?

Walter
_________________
"Amazing how many people listen with their eyes."
"Life is short....play nice."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Page 4 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group