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Schilke Handcraft trumpet?


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sounds7
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

leahcim wrote:
It already looks like Schilke hit the mark. Take a look at the bell flare and shape in the bach/schilke thread. That is very "Committee like."


I will let my ears be the judge of that. Roy Lawler also has the bell flair right and copied his horn from an actual committee but his horns dont sound exactly like a Martin Committee. It is "Committee like" but not a committee per se. A difference IMO. Some say the metal was different pre war and that may or may not be true in the case here. I am curious to hear an A-B comparison. Maybe someone with a Martin #3 can do one. If I see one of these Handcrafts around New Orleans I will do one.
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KingSilverSonic
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have purchased 2 Lawler C7 trumpets. I have also played a number of Schilkes and they are some of the best. When I got my first C7 I went to rehearsal early to show it off. As I was warming up a trumpet player from across the section shouted out. "Are you playing a Committee?" It was an awesome playing horn with a great sound. My second C7 is the actual C7 Super Deluxe prototype that I was able to purchase from the original owner. I was told that this horn was blind play-tested against a Martin Committee by 2 trumpet players and neither could tell which was which. I think that this C7 plays even better than my first one. I just don't see how the C7 can be labeled as not being in the same league as the new Schilke Handcraft. That being said, I note that I have not played the Handcraft. But, that is a rather far reaching statement.
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sounds7
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Lawler C7c is an exceptional instrument with a nice rich Dark tone. Darker actually than my Martin Committee #3 so when I say it is not exactly like a Martin I in no way am demeaning the trumpet. I am just making a point to the other poster that it takes more than a trumpet looking like a Martin to sound exactly like a Martin.
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gabrieljohnson
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have played the New Schilke horn, and A/B'd it with my own 1946 Committee and I have to say it's REALLY close in both sound and feel. The Schilke also has inherently better/easier to navigate intonation. Andrew and the guys over at Schilke have really done something amazing with this horn. While my Martin has extreme sentimental value to me as I have used it on a lot of things over the years, I would not hesitate to play that horn if anything EVER happened to my own Martin. It's really a fantastic horn.

Just my 2 cents.
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leahcim
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sounds7 wrote:
leahcim wrote:
It already looks like Schilke hit the mark. Take a look at the bell flare and shape in the bach/schilke thread. That is very "Committee like."


I will let my ears be the judge of that. Roy Lawler also has the bell flair right and copied his horn from an actual committee but his horns dont sound exactly like a Martin Committee. It is "Committee like" but not a committee per se. A difference IMO. Some say the metal was different pre war and that may or may not be true in the case here. I am curious to hear an A-B comparison. Maybe someone with a Martin #3 can do one. If I see one of these Handcrafts around New Orleans I will do one.


I have owned many Committee's including a large bore. I have also owned two C7's. In my opinion the C7 is a nice horn but not really like the Committee in sound or feel. The bells are quite different as well.
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markp
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gabrieljohnson wrote:
I have played the New Schilke horn, and A/B'd it with my own 1946 Committee and I have to say it's REALLY close in both sound and feel. The Schilke also has inherently better/easier to navigate intonation. Andrew and the guys over at Schilke have really done something amazing with this horn. While my Martin has extreme sentimental value to me as I have used it on a lot of things over the years, I would not hesitate to play that horn if anything EVER happened to my own Martin. It's really a fantastic horn.

Just my 2 cents.


Is your Committee a medium bore or the #3 large-bore?
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gabrieljohnson
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine is a #2, but I also played a #3 against it and the Schilke passed "the test". My #2 has a pretty wide sound anyway(not that far off from the #3 honestly) and it was all good. It's a really great horn.
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scipioap
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Link

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sounds7
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gabrieljohnson wrote:
Mine is a #2, but I also played a #3 against it and the Schilke passed "the test". My #2 has a pretty wide sound anyway(not that far off from the #3 honestly) and it was all good. It's a really great horn.


Alright some one needs to post some sound clips.
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chuck in ny
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

let's review. committee sound and feel with improved intonation. new fabrication by one of the world's premier shops.
the used committee market is what it is because you can't buy them any more and there hasn't been a reissue by any maker. this has to take a good deal of steam out of the inflated prices for old hardware.
just the medicine, really.
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sounds7
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chuck in ny wrote:
let's review. committee sound and feel with improved intonation. new fabrication by one of the world's premier shops.
the used committee market is what it is because you can't buy them any more and there hasn't been a reissue by any maker. this has to take a good deal of steam out of the inflated prices for old hardware.
just the medicine, really.
..chuck


If it is as advertised you have a point here. I think the prices on committees are already dropping because of the economy. They are still a very significant vintage trumpet so I would never expect them to be cheap because of the collectors out there. Players will love this Handcraft Schilke if it plays just like a #3 Martin Committee, I know because I have played one for over 20 years and there is nothing like it. I will be in line for a "Handcraft" myself if it plays like my Martin, why not. I wonder if Schilke will also offer all the vintage engraving that was available on a Martin just for affect.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sounds7 wrote:
I wonder if Schilke will also offer all the vintage engraving that was available on a Martin just for affect.

If they include a set of Lee Morgan chops, I'm in.
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intrepidpooch
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gabrieljohnson wrote:
I have played the New Schilke horn, and A/B'd it with my own 1946 Committee and I have to say it's REALLY close in both sound and feel. The Schilke also has inherently better/easier to navigate intonation. Andrew and the guys over at Schilke have really done something amazing with this horn. While my Martin has extreme sentimental value to me as I have used it on a lot of things over the years, I would not hesitate to play that horn if anything EVER happened to my own Martin. It's really a fantastic horn.

Just my 2 cents.


Dead on description of the Handcraft, Gabriel!
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markp
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since the Schilke Handcraft is based upon the #3 large bore Martin Committee, I don't think it is off-topic to ask a couple of questions I've had for some time.

I've read that the vast majority of Committees were/are #2 medium-bore horns. The #3s were/are rarer.

I am also under the impression that the 3#s were/are more highly prized and respected, not solely because of their rarity, but for superior playing characteristics. Is that pretty much true?

When they were made, were the #3s more expensive than the #2s? Did more hours go into their construction? Was quality control tighter for them? Were they considered to be a step up from the #2s?

I've owned three #2s and played several others. At first I really liked them, but after a very brief honeymoon period, I cooled to them quite rapidly over the issue of intonation. I've read many other posts here from players complaining about the intonation as well, with one of our best members saying that he never found one suitable to perform in public on (I'm paraphrasing from memory).

I realize that, like Couesnon flugelhorns, there are good ones and bad ones, but in general their intonation is suspect. I also realize that part of that perceived problem may be that the slots are intentionally not rigid and defined so that one may color the pitch and be creative. But even taking that into account, the ones I played definitely had pitch problems.

Do the #3s have a better reputation for intonation or have some of you played #3s that were "dogs?"
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sounds7
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no idea about what the original costs were but I will state that my #3 used to have some slight tuning issues on certain notes (Not anything drastic), however since Charlie Melk redid the valves and did a PVA i have not noticed these issues one bit. I think all martins would benefit from a PVA.
In fact Bob Reeves told me this once when I saw him here in New Orleans a few years back. I wished I had listened to him way back then instead of waiting until just this year to do it. My #3 plays with great intonation now.
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Zman
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding Committee pricing..... They are still quite stable in selling prices. The original asking prices are falling. Interestingly prices on the Martin Handcraft Imperials are down - for those with the the intonation problems (and I think it's probably more a slotting problem) You really should buy one of those and spend a little extra getting it tweaked and aligned. That way you get all the benefits of the sound and feel.

Can someone who has tried the Schilke and a Martin comment on how the new one feels in the hand?
I noticed the valve sections in modern horns feel more bulky in comparison to vintage horns. Even a regular Martin Committee vs a Handcraft version feels quite different.

Thanks, Zman
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EdMann
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been a little while, but the prototype Schilke Handcraft I tried didn't feel bulky in the least. On the contrary, it felt light in the hand if not a little big in the blow, but I've always had that experience with Schilkes, particularly the B1 and B3. Intonation was amazing, as it is with most any Schilke, nice dark sound like the Committee but new and shiny.

Hey, some Commits are pitchy, but some I've tried are right on. Their value, in my humble opinion, will not decrease anymore than Bach MV3C mpc prices did when Kanstul copies were introduced. The laws of scarcity remain. They are scarce, and the good ones, more so.

So there,
ed
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RandyTX
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps a minor question relative to some of the interesting comments above, but is there any chance this will be available in raw brass or lacquer, instead of the silver/gold plate they always stick with?
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chuck in ny
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

randy
no inside knowledge but it's nearly certain that they will offer lacquer.
..chuck
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richardwy
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RandyTX wrote:
but is there any chance this will be available in raw brass or lacquer, instead of the silver/gold plate they always stick with?


Randy, take a peek at the Bach/Schilke thread. No mention of finishes, but mention of "alloys." And there's a snapshot.
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