which mouthpiece with your WT.

[rich]

which mouthpiece have you discovered works best with your WT.

I don't have a WT but I'm thinking about some horns.. and I may have the opportunity to try a WT... so I'm just becoming curious as to mouthpiece possibilities.

My present mp may not be a good one to try with a WT... it is a Schilke 14B and it works good (or seems to) on my Bach. Maybe a straight 14 would be better... or maybe something totally different.

[David Oulton]

I only tried a couple of mouthpieces with my WT... Bach 1.25C, GR67M and GR67LX... I'm using the 67LX...

David

[_Don Herman]

I mainly use a Schilke 14 or 14B, depending on the sound and range I'm playing. I sometimes use a Marcinkiewicz 7CW for higher work, just 'cuz I like the rim and the deeper cup plus smaller diameter helps my high range endurance without sounding too bright. I also have Flip's mpcs (made by Mark Curry) and use from a 1 to a 5 depending on mood, sound desired, etc. I've been through quite a few mpcs and can't say my choices are best -- I got tired of looking, and they do OK for me. Both Lee Adams and Tom Turner have done more extensive research/playing and hopefully they'll chime in. FWIW, mpc choice is pretty personal and what works for you or me may be different from anybody else.

Toodles - Don
_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

[tom turner]

Hi,

Just about anything you like sound great on the WT. The WT has a darker, richer, broader tone than other trumpets so I've gone to smaller mouthpieces to keep my basic "sound." Its really cool to be able to downsize and still sound dark and rich!!!

I'd been using a Warburton 2DD (.680 w/ very deep cup like a Bach 1A) on a slightly more open Warburton 8 backbore before the WT. Now I'm playing a Warburton 8M/Q2 (#6 size) backbore. With the WT one can go about 2-3 numbers "tighter" on a Warburton backbore and dial in just the right amount of resistance for that horn. The Warburton 8M is equivalent to a Bach 12C--man, talking about goin' from the sublime to the ridiculous!!!

For legit stuff I'm using a "Gen. Lee ***" early prototype for the new Northern Brass mouthpieces by GR--built on a 63s sized mouthpiece. Some would call this a small mouthpiece too but with a SC embouchure it doesn't feel small at all!

Flip, on the other hand, uses an obscenely huge bucket of a mouthpiece that Curry made for him . . . much larger than a Bach 1 . . . actually a .710 rim with a huge, open backbore too--reamed out even more than his signature piece by Curry! Sometimes, for kicks I still pull out my old bucket 2DD--huge volume of sound that screams!

The WT has such a huge palette of tonal "colors" that you can do a whole lot with its sound from extremely dark to rich and bright by using the different mouthpiece "set ups."

Sincerely,

Tom Turner

[The General]

The "Wild Thing", as many know, is a .470 Bore Horn, with a very open Bell Throat. It's response is excellent, due to the lightweight tubing used in its' construction.

Flip generally recommends the use of the #1 Tuning Slide, which is the most open. As Tom mentions, Flip uses a very large mouthpiece. That is the set-up that works for him.

I recommend a mouthpiece with a tighter backbore, and possibly a smaller diameter. With a very open Bell, and the .470 Bore, you need to put resistance somewhere, in order to maintain good lip compression, as well as for improving intonation. The mouthpiece is the best place to do that.

Much depends upon our individual needs, playing situations, and sound concept. There are not many Trumpet Players out there who do not aspire to increase their range. Many move to the Larger Bore Horns for a more free-blowing "feel". Initially, this may be the answer, but may lead us to more issues.

My advice is to be realistic, make the sound that you want to hear, and make beautiful Music. This can be done "pain free". If you have noticed a drop in your endurance, or have more of a challenge in your phrasing, or you end each practice/performance session with "swollen chops", you will be wise to consider changing your mouthpiece before changing Horns again. "No pain, no gain" may work for athletes, but "No pain, no brain" may be the case with a struggling Musician.

I would be glad to assist anyone with their mouthpiece needs, whether for use on the "Wild Thing", or on any Trumpet.



_________________
Bruce Lee - www.Northern Brass.com - (603) 479-0678
... "Dedicated to the Comeback Trumpet Player"... ready, willing, and able to assist all!

[ This Message was edited by: The General on 2002-02-06 10:28 ]

[ This Message was edited by: The General on 2002-02-06 10:29 ]

[tom turner]

Hi,

Since the "General" decided to post, I'll reveal that soon I'm going to be working with him to produce the "Wildest" mouthpiece for the Wild Thing . . . at least for the SC crowd to consider.

Working closely with GR, Northern Brass has come up with an awesome line of "smaller, SC-friendly" mouthpieces that make the GRs everything to the closed setting players that they can be. I REALLY like the sound and the way that all the NorthernBrass GR mouthpieces play!

I'm getting ready to have them produce a version with a very special rim that I love and it will be a "signature" piece in the NorthernBrass line-up. After a gig this weekend I'll be able to surrender my pet rim for digitizing.

Bruce Lee is a marvelous player and a fantastic liason between the genius that is called GR and the closed embouchure crowd and I'm pleased to be working with Bruce on this new mouthpiece.

I highly recommend Bruce Lee for your mouthpiece and trumpet needs (Callet, Lawler and WT)!

Sincerely,

Tom Turner

[rich]

enjoying the good information. I still haven't tried a WT but hopefully by tomorrow night I will have had my chops behind one that I have located here in Nebraska. My first opportunity to play a non-assembly line horn. So, I'm excited to have the chance... I'm limited on what I have for mouthpieces but will use the Schilke 14B for the test. I have the 14A4a and a Bach 2C but I feel pretty good about the 14B.

Don't know what I will do for sure... I have had email contact with both Flip and Bruce regarding their horns. They all sound so great.

Your posts here give me some ideas to start thinking about if and when I get my own "dream trumpet". And if a guy thinks choosing the right trumpet is tough... how about mouthpiece selection... seems to be no end to the choices and varieties.

[tom turner]

Hi Rich,

Take the mouthpiece(s) you are most comfortable on so you have a really valid point of comparison. Play too many mouthpieces and your chops may get screwed up or you may be confused. In any event, expect to be pleased with what you will hear. Most people say "Darn," or something a little stronger once that first big fat note dies away.

A Wild Thing will ignite your passion to play more and you'll truly look forward to each time you can remove it from its case. Sure, not everyone can afford something like this at different times in their lives but, when you examine what you ARE spending now you might see that the money might bring you more pleasure with the horn of your dreams.

Some folks eat out a lot, others (like me) drink a six pack of coke each day, others smoke a pack a day, still others pay an extra hundred dollars a month on a fancier model car. In each of these examples a person could simply scale back and apply that "wasted" hundred dollars a month towards a Wild Thing and have something that would last you forever . . . and wouldn't get flushed down the toilet, hacked out of the lungs or sit rusting and depreciating in the driveway.

I believe that every person who slaves for years in the practice room because he/she loves playing trumpet deserves to one day have something truly special that will be with them giving them pleasure for the remainder of their trumpet playing years. Maybe it is your time to reward yourself--and kick a "bad" habit at the same time to free up the money.

In any event, tomorrow with be special!

Sincerely,

Tom Turner

[_Don Herman]

Tom said: "In any event, tomorrow with be special!" Hmmm... little too wild for me Tom; too many high notes? (paybacks, LOL!)

To try a new mpc or not when trying a new horn is always a concern. On one hand, you want to play something you are comfortable and/or familiar with so there aren't extra unknowns. OTOH, if your mpc and the horn are terribly mismatched, you may not be getting the best out of the horn. Then, you have to decide if you want to change mpcs as well.

I'd stick with the 14B. You know it, and my WT seems to be pretty forgiving of mpc selection. Enjoy your test, and let us know how it went and what you think!

Toodles - Don
_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

[raptor]

I just got a WT and the mouthpiece I was using just plain didn't match well with it. After extensive conversation with Bruce Lee at NB we're settled on a GR mouthpiece that should match up better. He's very right when he says that the resistance has to come from somewhere and the horn won't provide it. I had been using a Monette MF2 and with the huge bore it virtually no resistance. Not a good combo for endurance. i highly recommend Bruce at Northern Brass.

[tom turner]

Yep,

Bruce is correct. A really free blowing horn will usually cause one to add resistance back somewhere in the mouthpiece/backbore area. I go about two sizes smaller on Warburton backbores normally when playing my WT.

However, some choose to go initially with the #2 slide for the same reason (but different).

Flip, on the other hand, uses a tuba-sized mouthpiece with an old bazooka tube for a backbore.

Bottom line . . . lotsa options when playing a WT!

Sincerely,

Tom Turner

[trumpetmagic]

I think it works with any MPs.
I would like to get your feedback and advice on my recent experience.
I ordered and got a Monette B1-1FL for my WT cornet because I wanted to make turn-of-century cornet sounds. I became deaf for a moment when I saw its throat. The throat was HUGE and backbore was damn OPEN. I felt I might be sucked into the hole and coming out of the bell.

As you can tell, both my WT cornet and B1-1FL are very open. For the first couple of days, I cound not make any decent sounds. I felt my chops were screwed up forever. After the third day, I learned a trick that I had to blow strong (forte or louder) to make sounds. Air in my lung depletes faster and my chops gets tired faster. My high notes definitely went south. I hope it would come back with B1-1FL.

But I still like this MP because trombone-like sounds do come out though not beautiful yet. I know I could not make trombone-like sounds with regular #27 throat and standard backbore.

I feel like I am stuck with the open (cornt)-open (MP) combination to make the turn-of-century cornet sounds sacrifcing high notes.

Are there any alternatives I should try? I am looking for an easy way to produce the turn-of-century or trombone-like sounds without sacrificing high notes. A limiting factor is I do not like a small MP.

Thanks.

Ken

[Cozy]

Rich,
How'd it go with the first-time WT experience? I anxiously await your opinion.
I love my WT, also my Callet Jazz. I like the Callet DT-10 mpc and the GR e62MS. One really can get a surprisingly full sound from a smaller mpc playing the WT. I stick mostly w the #1 slide. The comments re resistance needed from a smaller mpc w a WT are important to remember.
Bruce Lee really is a perfect source to work with mpc's for the WT or Callet.

Cozy
http://www.cozychops.com

[gregplo]

I'm playing a GR64M and a 64MS with my WT. I got hooked on GR mouthpieces about a year ago at a clinic Lee Adams put on. Bruce Lee from NorthernBrass was kind enough to send several demo pieces down. The 64M and 64MS just clicked for me.

Greg Plough

[tom turner]

Hi trumpetmagic,

I too own a WT, mine's a gold trumpet with the #1, #2, and #3 slides. I too use the #1 just about 99% of the time.

I'm also a true "nut" for the authentic, turn-of-the-century cornet sound that changed with the development of "trumpet-like wrapped" and "trumpet-like" bore cornets vs. the shepard's crook ultra-large bore cornets of the original design. Also GREATLY altering the sound of the "newer" cornets was the adoption of the trumpet-like mouthpieces.

Your Monette mouthpiece with its huge throat and backbore and (I assume) a deep V-cup will definately give the old tone but two things must happen:

1. You must learn to play it as a "cornet" vs. approaching it as a trumpet. It is the same mental and physical challenge we all face when first playing an Eb vs. Bb trumpet. Our darned brains keep saying, "Brighter, more projecting," . . . at least mine does!

2. Second, you must realize that the whole purpose of the tight backbore, small throat, C-cupped mouthpieces WAS to give it an easier upper register with greater power and projection and much greater ease.

That being said, don't despair! Keep on working with the Monette and focus on a soft, gentle, velvet sound. Like a fluglehorn, a cornet should be approached and played differently than a cornet--three totally different "voices."

I perform with four horns for the four distinct tone and emotion "colors" I get: My WT trumpet, Couesnon fluglehorn, 1939 Conn Victor "jazz" cornet, and an awesome .480 bore 1911 Boston 3-Star Shepard's Crook cornet.

I use totally different mouthpiece concepts in the two cornets too! On the Boston I use the incredibly brutal but awesome sounding original Boston "cookie cutter" mouthpiece . . . short shank, HUGE throat and backbore (like a fluglehorn) with a french horn/flugle like super deep V cup and narrow rim (.660 diameter).

I played this horn combination for about four months almost without switching to trumpet unless on a gig calling for trumpet and learned how to craft a delicate, warm cornet sound after years of a bright, powerful trumpet sound. With time, I succeeded and discovered that I could play that horn at unbelievably soft levels with such subtile tonal colors . . . and the range came back up to where I was comfortable to about a high G in performance (above high C). If I tried to "overblow" it and turn it into a trumpet I'd have the same luck of overblowing an Eb trumpet outdoors trying to make it a Bb trumpet. Same difference. With a "modern" cornet mouthpiece it lost a lot of the tonal quality.

I just wanted to encourage you to hang in there. The college I attended did a listening study back in the early 70's and proved to tons of music majors that a trumpet and cornet sounded virtually identical. Graduates of this fine school went out to become band directors who eliminated the less powerful cornets from the tonal colors of their bands.

Behind the screen in their test was a top trumpeter switching between his Bach ML 37 Strad trumpet and a ML 37 Strad cornet--both with Bach 3C mouthpieces. Both horns were "trumpet bore" (.459) instruments and with the "American style" cornet designed to project well with trumpets . . . both with 3C trumpet mouthpiece tops . . . both approached and played "trumpet-style" by an experienced player who had psychologically learned how to produce a perfect "trumpet" sound. Gee . . . that wasn't a test at all! Wrong equipment played by a player who didn't know (nor had heard in his lifetime) a true velvet cornet sound.

Frankly, at the time I didn't know the difference either, nor could have demonstrated the tone of both a vintage cornet and modern trumpet properly.

Last year, I had the pleasure of visiting a dear friend of mine . . . (the college's first recipient of a Masters in Multiple Winds and participant in the test as a listener) the dramatic differences between the two. This time he wasn't fooled.

Alas . . . the warmer, singing quality of the cornet is now missing in most bands. I'm hoping someday the cornet will be rediscovered for the emotional power it possesses.

Hang in there my friend!

BTW, a WT cornet will be my next horn when I can afford it (two sons in college, one a year away). How do you like yours?

[davo]

I use a GRe65MS and switch to a Bach small lettered 3C when I need the legit sound. Bruce Lee tells me that Gary is about to introduce an e65M that should replace the 3C.

[trumpetmagic]

[_Don Herman]

Belburn Music, http://www.belburn-music.co.uk , used to send out a sampler of their CDs if you asked. It has some fantastic cornet playing (among other things) on it. If it's still available, an excellent way to hear a true cornet sound. If not, or even if so, it'd be interesting to open a thread asking for good recordings of cornet recordings. As Tom T sez, a cornet ain't nuthin' like a trumpet when played correctly. - Don
_________________
Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

[trumpetmagic]