interpreting horn recommendations

[SalArmy]

I used to place a lot of stock in horn recommendations that I read on the Internet.
But experience eventually taught me to look closer at those instrument recommendations.

One person once wrote that one instrument was the best ever made by any company, so I bought such an instrument from eBay, but I was only mildly satisfied. I later learned that the person making the recommendation was an amateur whose range was so limited that he never played above the staff, his arthritis was so bad that he couldn't play fast, and his playing experience did not include many great instruments. I still greatly appreciate his online instrument reviews because they lead me to try instruments that I might otherwise never have heard of or tried, so I hope he continues making such instrument recommendations, but now I do not give his recommendations quite as much weight as I used to.

Even if the person making the instrument recommendation were the great Bill Chase, I would greatly appreciate his recommendation and I would check out his recommended instruments, but I would put only limited weight in his recommendations, too. Because Bill Chase played loud jazz/rock, while I play soft Christian music. And I have a completely different embouchure type than Bill Chase had, so that I need a different bore size to compensate. And, while Bill Chase played faster than poop through a goose, I never play anything that is faster than a snail's pace.

I can learn much from reading the instrument reviews from all players, both amateur and professional players, both new players and long-time players.
I should not blindly discount some player's review just because he is an amateur, and I should not blindly accept some player's review just because he is a professional.
Instead, I should put limited weight in reviews from all people, knowing that all their opinions are valid within context, but their physical needs and tone needs and range needs and speed needs are not necessarily the same as my needs. So every person will legitimately have a different "best instrument" recommendation.

I realize that my post is just Common Sense 101 to most players, but I hope that it helps new players young and old who are beginning their Instrument Safaris.

Sal
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Salvation Army Triumphonic cornet
Wick 1B and Wick 1C cornet mouthpieces

Olds Ambassador Tenor Horn
Wick 5 and Olds 44 Tenor Horn mouthpieces

[connicalman]

Precis!
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kochaavim, csillaagkep, αστε��ισμός, konnstelacji, connstellation... ...a.k.a. the 28A!
Other Conns: Victor 5A & 38A, New Wonder & 80A; 'stella 38A; 36A; 'quest 76A...

[oliver king]

There is a wealth of well intentioned and sometimes helpful information provided here. Most of it subjective and demanding interpretation.

Some of the best advice I've read on TH is: to listen closely, work with professionals, try it for yourself, the problem is rarely the horn in your hand - but the one in your head causing the problem. Things gone awry are usually pretty small and needing only a minor adustment. Through the well intentioned magnifying glass of a public forum, problems take on a whole new signficance.

There is a cottage industry ready to cater to the desires, phobeas and whims of the trumpet playing community. Knowing what we need and being objective of the advice we receive is a $anity saving measure.

[shofarguy]

The #1 challenge in writing a proper review, IMO, is providing a context for interpretation. As you mentioned, the reviewer's status as amateur or professional is a start, but really is only a "subtitle" to other elements that make up the writer's perspective.

Knowing one's own style, perspective and limitations and how they relate to others' is an inner journey at least as fascinating (to me) as that of learning the instrument.

Measuring subjective differences, finding clues to the whys and hows and then communicating them effectively to the audience at hand, knowing that one's perspective is limited and constantly changing, is an exercise for the literary fanatic, or maniac! It takes one to know one, and I happen to love reviewing instruments.

Brian
_________________
Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.

[Bob Sweet]

Oliver King expressed the subject very accurately!!! I agree with every word of his message.

Bob

[royjohn]

I have had good luck figuring out what to try by researching on the internet, both here on TH and elsewhere. Obviously you have to be thorough and consider the source. Some horns are hyped by a few adherents and not a lot of other people. After a while, often a consensus develops among posters. In addition to "this is a great horn" I like to look for info about whether the horn is bright or dark, etc. Youtube is a good resource, too.

Horns are so different, even in one brand and model, one just has to try them to actually know what's what. But I guess all this is just restating the obvious.
_________________
royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .

[DaveH]

Well, IMO, it's a lot like reading reviews on new and used cars.

Probably the only absolute is that there are no absolutes, all is a matter of opinion, and of course, you must consider the source, if you can find out who the source is. Even if the source is highly credible, that doesn't necessarily mean you will be able to duplicate that experience for yourself.

Further, in reading all kinds of reviews about all kinds of products, I have also concluded that many people will complain about anything, no matter what it is.

In the end, you must make you own choices and decisions. It certainly doesn't hurt to look at reviews and recommendations, but they are ultimately simply someone's opinion.

[Comeback]

What a great thread! I am a comebacker now four months into my renewed commitment to the trumpet and cornet. I started my comeback effort by using what I had laying around: a 61 year old Blessing Standard trumpet and a somewhat newer Holton Collegiate cornet. Quite frankly, these should have been adequate for me for some time. But it is easy to succumb to temptation when it comes to trumpets and trumpet playing, and I soon found myself with a new low-pro/high-intermediate trumpet, according to the way in which I discerned TH consensus. I believe I made a good choice and am enjoying my new horn a great deal. And I appreciate what I learned from fellow TH'ers!

[Robert Rowe]

I give opinions. And, rather blunt ones, at that.

I don't "tap dance" around, with cutesy, politically correct, crap.

I DO strive for accuracy, however. I "call a spade a spade". I either have a subject horn in-hand; or have owned several examples, and have vivid impressions ... still strong enough to elucidate on the merits or failings of a horn.

I don't buy-into the hype, either. Some horns (and gear) just don't cut it, any longer, despite their reputation. Relics ... best left for posterity, or a wall-hanger.

I also understand that what may work for someone else, does NOT work for me. I will give the benefit of doubt.

Just because 'so-and-so' (fill-in name of jazz artist, or "flavor-of-the-month" guy) played a certain horn model, does not carry ANY weight for me.

There are many here that ... for lack of a better word ... are "ANAL" with the minutia associated with the technical aspects of a horn, or the acoustical experience or impression for a very narrow application.

I look at any horn as a "clean sheet of paper". And, from which I endeavor to learn its capabilities, and its limitations or flaws.

I used to work in the construction business. I worked with forensic engineers. We tried to learn why structures failed. We were "trouble-shooters". Why a bridge collapsed, for example.

I use the concept of "forensics" sometimes in evaluating a horn. Sometimes, horns really work well, that technically might seem to be a dead-end, or so bizarre, they should not work at all.

I wish I could be paid for this. On-the-other-hand, no one would want to pay me.


~ r2 ~
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~ Love animals ... don't eat them. ~

I miss Genghis Khan ....

[VetPsychWars]

I don't have wide experience playing a lot of horns but going to Chicago Trumpet Hangs has shown me that some very well thought of horns just don't work for me... and some do!

My only purpose in promoting Buescher is to overcome the reputation they gained for being "student horn junk". While, like any horn, they don't work for everyone, when you stumble across one, they don't cost as much as some and they merit a look.

Careful analysis of my postings should bear that out.

(This Holton 48 Deluxe is a horn I like a lot too.)

Tom
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1950 Buescher Lightweight 400 Trumpet
1949 Buescher 400 Trumpet
1939 Buescher 400 Cornet
GR65M, GR65 Cor #1

[laurent]

[irith]

The main drawback to horn reviews, in my opinion, is the inadequacy of language (especially written, as opposed to spoken) to convey the mysterious physical sensations involved with playing the trumpet. This would be enough if everyone really knew what they were listening and feeling for in a trumpet when reviewing - but they don't! Reviews mean little.

The best reviews, I believe, compare the qualities of one piece of equipment to another. This gives a much more universal context for any statement, and makes the language much easier to decipher if one has played one of the horns/mouthpieces/whatever in question.

[etc-etc]

Interpreting horn recommendations:

1) get the opinion of respected horn teachers;
2) read the horn literature;
3) frequent the horn websites;
4) learn the horn language;
5) ask your horn(s) what would they recommend.

[Robert Rowe]

[HornnOOb]

[spitvalve]

Most of us end up playing Bach 37 variants. Boutique horns are often described as "like a Bach but more sound,", "like a Bach on steroids,"etc.

Wouldn't it be great if Bach started making horns that sounded like a Bach on steroids?
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Bryan Fields
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1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1977 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1995 UMI Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces

[shofarguy]

[Don Lee]