Bb or C Professional Grade Trumpet

connicalman · Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:58 am Post subject:

-iii-(

If the suggestion for a convertible C, the one I put a hearty 2nd toward, has thrown a wrench in your decision making, accept it as well-intentioned, and at worst, less than half mistaken. My logic is that the 1410 and 604 convertibles are built for use in C, aren't too expensive, and can be turned over fast enough for not much of a loss. (That Bach is way beyond either.) From any of them you'd learn the foibles inherent in keeping a trumpet of any key in tune. It may very well be you're already that good, or it could be too early in your development for that, but we don't know.

Since a trumpet is prob'ly the easiest instrument to sound loud, proud and badat at the same time, I have to ask one question: WHY does one of your teachers recommend the C? If you are that good, that proficient at trumpet already, then you could make a King Cleveland student model sound better than everyone else in your section. But we don't know.

Perhaps that C - inclined teacher sees the capacity for you to be a professional trumpet player. If so, then yes maybe you're ready for a C.

I'm thinking like a parent. I'm an uncle, and my nephew got the Jupiter 604. It is good for him, only a little confusing, but again, I know him, not you. Your teachers know you. Armed with all the great advice from TH, ask of that one teacher why he or she suggests a C for you. That is the rub. That is the essence of the situation. That suggestion from someone who knows you is why there's been so much contributed for your consideration here on TH.

Best to you!
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kochaavim, csillaagkep, αστερρισμός, konnstelacji, connstellation... ...a.k.a. the 28A!
Other Conns: Victor 5A & 38A, New Wonder & 80A; 'stella 38A; 36A; 'quest 76A...

stevesf · Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:45 am Post subject:

upgrade your Bb first. It is the most essential horn for all types of playing.
You can still play classical repertoire on Bb....there is nothing wrong with that.
Heck Maurice Murphy played Bb most of the time and I think most of us agree he did pretty well.

You will want to upgrade your C too if you can...particularly if you do most of your work in an american orchestra (european orchestras seem to be more flexible in this matter)

There are some decent Bb/C combo horns out there but you have to be careful, there are many more duds with awful intonation issues .

Just my 2 cents
_________________
Steve Shults

Yamaha 6310Z - Bb Trumpet
Bach Strad 229/25H - C Trumpet
Yamaha 631 (rose brass) - Flugel
Warburton 4 series mouthpieces
-------------------------------------------------
Know Music, Know Life....No Music, No Life

trpt2 · Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: Bb or C

Hopefully to help with your question...

If you are a h.s. player, Definitely get a Bb. Period.
I'm trying to cut the chase, here.
I can tell you , my teacher in undergrad wouldn't even LET me get a C until junior year of college. His point was, learn to play the Bb well first, and Then pick up a C. It as advice that served me extremely well over the years. If you don't play a Bb well, a C only Compounds the problems.
(resistance, pitch, sound, etc.) I had to learn all the Strauss, Mahler, stuff on Bb first! Sure, It was a pain, but when I finally went to a C, it was a relatively easy switch. (ironically, as a result, E transposition from a Bb is one of my best...)
Don't kid yourself- you need a Bb FIRST.... Learn to play it, and THEN try the C.. Don't even THINK about a C 'till college. (with a good teacher.)
Just My 2 cents, but what I Strongly believe!!!
All the best,

Bob Earley
Philadelphia Orchestra
(Oh wait, the Bankrupt Philadelphia Orchestra)

J_Mase · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Nov 2010 Posts: 525

-iii-( · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:34 am Post subject:

-iii-(

[quote="Crazy Finn"]

-iii-( · Last edited by -iii-( on Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:45 am; edited 1 time in total

PH · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:44 am Post subject: Re: Bb or C

-iii-( · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:54 am Post subject:

crzytptman · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:00 am Post subject:

ltkije1966 · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:23 am Post subject:

cheiden · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:28 am Post subject:

If you have a teacher you trust then let them tell you if your current Bb needs to be replaced any time soon. If it does then a Bb is what you need. If you don't have cash to burn you can't beat a good use Strad or Yamaha 6000-series horn.

From what you've said in other posts there's no way you should even be considering any other keyed horn. When your technique progresses a bit more you'll be in a much better position to manage the grief that is the C trumpet.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

Andy Del · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:57 pm Post subject:

-iii-(

In 30+ years of teaching (I think, I've forgotten how many years, really) I've had 3 high school students go onto C trumpet. Each one was technically adept, secure in their playing, and had a demonstrable need to play on a C, not only for orchestral playing, but for solo, chamber and ensemble music as well.

In this case, you're getting told to get a C, 'cause that's one person's default position. This has nothing to do with you the player, so I'd forget the advice as fast as possible, and go sit down with your Bb and get practicing. Save some $$$ and upgrade to a good 'professional' Bb. Keep practicing.

Bob Early gave you some spot on advice - take it and send him a Christmas card, it's the word from a man who is right where you want to go to.

cheers

Andy
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so many horns, so few good notes...

Ubungstickle · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:48 pm Post subject:

Well I use C-trumpet for orchestra so I only practice orchestra music with C-trumpet. But if a part calls for cornet I'll use my Bb.

But I think many use Bb trumpet for fundamental practice and solo work, unless you're playing c trumpet solo work. So I would invest in a Bb

Also you can play music that people would usually play on C trumpet with a Bb, but you cant play Bb music with a C. It's like a one way street
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Yamaha YTR-9445CHS C
Schilke P5/4 Picc

shofarguy · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:24 pm Post subject:

-iii-(,

With all due respect to your teacher, unless he attended ITG this past year and/or has played a 1410, he really isn't qualified to make an assessment. Prior Bb/C convertibles have been less than successful, but the new Kanstul does both keys well.

The timbre may be an issue in a professional setting, but not so much in a college. The responsiveness may fall slightly short of the best Cs and the Bb is a little unusual, as that goes, but for a modest investment, you get two very playable horns.

But, many teachers seem to be skeptical of anything new...

Personally, if I were in college, I would consider it carefully. I would keep it, too, as a backup and chamber trumpet after going pro and buying a top-level instrument.

Brian
_________________
Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper

There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.

J_Mase · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Nov 2010 Posts: 525

Don Lee · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:30 pm Post subject:

andybharms · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:21 pm Post subject:

crzytptman · Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:34 pm Post subject:

royjohn

J Mase wrote: