Range and powerful sound through embouchure nodal points

crzytptman · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:01 pm Post subject:

kalijah wrote:

kalijah · Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:59 pm Post subject:

The "other" factors I was referring to are air concepts.

While air pressure is required for a tone. Air pressure does not determine frequency.

The things that directly affect the pulsing aperture like the surrounding muscles that act on the embouchure, the jaw position and how the lips are set have the dominant effect on frequency.

crzytptman · Posted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:09 pm Post subject:

"The muscles of the lips and face hold the lips in place, not just to get high notes, but so that they will keep vibrating. Because of this, they are constantly moving and changing.
When the tongue moves, the jaw moves and immediately the face and lip muscles adjust so they will keep vibrating. As one plays higher, the lips and face muscles grip so as to hold and keep vibrating. You as a player can never outguess or plan these movements; they will work correctly by themselves with proper practice and given time to develop.
As one plays lower, the jaw drops, as when saying "Aww" and the lip and face muscles automatically adjust to keep vibrating.
This means that these muscles must be very strong, but also very elastic and flexible, so their movements will be smooth and supple. This cannot be developed by theory. It can only be developed by practice."

Brass Playing is No Harder Than Deep Breathing (pg. 31) - Claude Gordon

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kalijah · Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:12 am Post subject:

Yes, it does take practice. I do not disagree. But no action will make the lips "keep vibrating" if there is no air pressure present.

And that air pressure does not determine the frequency. The embouchure setting does.

This IS indeed mastered through practice. Yes, no theory is required to play well.

Of course, some Gordon followers claim to eschew "theory" only to continually subscribe to tongue arch having some "air-compression" or "air-speed" or "air-power" effect due to some theory (and a poor one at that).

When Gordon wrote: "When the tongue moves, the jaw moves and immediately the face and lip muscles adjust so they will keep vibrating."

Why does he not say "when the tongue moves, the lip muscles adjust so that they vibrate at a different pitch?"

It appears that he believes that the tongue position is the direct cause of pitch. If that is the case I disagree with him.

I would say that certain lip muscle actions that control frequency (ascending) require the tongue to rise. As a coordinated movement.

I appears that Gordon does not give the embouchure, (lips, jaw, muscles) the credit for frequency. It appears to me that only the tongue is allowed credit for that.

Yes, the lips, jaw and surrounding muscles must operate correctly (conscious or not) for the lips to be in a position to produce tone. And these things also have a DIRECT effect on the frequency of that tone.

I believe that tongue movements are an important part of technique. I would encourage them as part of a total system. (Along with lots of practice) I would invite players to disassociate with the "theory" associated with that action.

Basically what some players and teachers are implying is:

"forget about theory, except for MY theory"

crzytptman · Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:30 am Post subject:

From the same, pg. 24: