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DIY Sonic Cleaner



 
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johnsboy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:41 am    Post subject: DIY Sonic Cleaner Reply with quote

I keep making ludicrously low bids on potentially good horns . . . and winning them. When they arrive they are remarkably filthy and so far I've just used conventional cleaning methods and a bunch of elbow grease to sanitize and make them playable. I'd have them professionally cleaned but I would feel it a bit ironic if the one time cost of the bath was twice what I paid for the horn (e.g. a King Cleveland 600 I just received that, with shipping, cost me just under 35 bucks).

Here's my brilliantly conceived invention: My wife recently discarded (and I retrieved) a stove top roaster. From above it is "capsule shaped" and approximately 30" by 12" by 12" high - it has a lid. I've got one of those massage pads one can set in their lounge chair and get a massage (sort of). I'm thinking if I put said pad on a concrete floor with the "roaster", filled with some kind of cleaner fluid concoction, on top of that . . . I might accomplish a low cost home-made "sonic cleaner". I'd like to give this configuration a try this weekend but thought I'd pick the collective brain trust for a recipe for the fluid bath. Any thoughts on what might work? If my wild idea doesn't work at all I can still use the roaster as a conventional bath and not need to fill a full size bath tub and then, after I've been leaning over a hot trumpet all evening I can still get a back rub - so I'm not out anything. I'll keep you posted and let you know if this is just an exercise in futility or if I'm onto something here.
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david mickley
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be very leery of putting one of those pads in water, could end up being a deep fryer. Not really sure if it would be sending out the right pulses anyway. Who knows I may be wrong, others please join in.
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supportlivejazz
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's a positively Capt Kirkian idea. Please let us know how it turns out.
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NMex
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try cleaning your horn in one of those plastic or rubber storage tubs, on the counter in the kitchen. Be careful not to overfill as water is quite heavy. You'll never clean it in the bath tub again.

Water and products not rated for use in wet environments is probably not the greatest idea. It only takes one accident.

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NMex
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veery715
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use a plastic bus bin like restaurants use. Water/vinegar/dish soap.

I have a 1/2 gal ultrasonic cleaner which fits slides and valve parts. Whole horns get disassembled and the parts which fit go into the US cleaner. The horn gets a bath with initial and repeated snaking.

So far this has worked well.

You might try your idea with a driver from a heavy tweeter and a hgih frequency audio supply. Whether the driver goes in the bath or not is definitely a Kirkian choice.

If your massager runs on low voltage, why not put it in a plastic bag and put it under the pan and see what happens.
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newtrumpetguy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this could work, maybe not as effective as a real ultrasonic cleaner though. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't a roaster metal? Won't the horn just be knocked around it in and get dings and dents?
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etc-etc
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as you do not plug it in, you will be fine.
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ConnArtist
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure that pad isn't going to resonate at the right frequency.

Alternatively, soak the horn in diluted CLR for 15 minutes, snake, rinse. Works for me!
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johnsboy
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I think it's a positively Capt Kirkian idea. Please let us know how it turns out."

I just read back through my post and it was also bordering on a Captain Kirkian description. I wasn't intending to put the pad in the vessel with the fluid - I was going to set the pad on a concrete floor and then set the vessel on top of the pad. Regarding the possibility of the horn banging around inside the pot I was thinking of making some kind of cradle-like contraption that would keep that from happening - something like a canning jar rack, maybe. This is probably a silly project that won't go anywhere - I think the notion that the frequency generated might not have much cleansing cpability is a real possibility. But, hey, I've already got all of the materials and a honey-do list of other important things to do about a mile long so . . . I think I'll do this instead. Thanks for your feedback - I'll let you know how things turn out.
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butxifxnot
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DIY sonic cleaning?? I am intrigued. I'd LOVE something like that. But I'm having a little trouble visualizing what exactly the setup of the device is...perhaps you could upload a pic when you've tested your experiment?

-Pete
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Glissando
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If ultrasonic cleaning is what you're after, the physics is much different. Here's a brief description:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrasonic_cleaning
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Capt.Kirk
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have considered the same thing but in my case I have a transducer that would work in exact same way the pro type gear works. The problem is that once I found out how fast it needs to vibrate I am of by a large margin. I think some one on here told me their pro machine vibrates at something like 200 Thousand cycles a second the most I can do in 20 thousand cycles a second and your massager would not even come close to what I can do....So I have not built mine yet. I was hoping I would be able to do the it and get close but I would need to move up an entire order of magnanimosity to be in the right ball park and to be honest while it is great your thinking I think your would not do anything at all. Plus keep in mind you need a basket to separate the part from the vibrating surface. If you stuck the part on the bottom of the pan with the cleaning solution and started to vibrate it you would only scratch up your horn. You want the part to stand still in basket while the cleaning medium vibrates at sonic levels!

Keep in mind that cavatation is what is working you are creating micro explosions int he fluid and any place their is resistance get's hit with more energy then a smooth clean surface. The bonds holding the material to the horn are temporarily broken and the liquid allows it to be dispersed. Some people claim that sonic cleaning might make a surface more porous that thus more prone to intrinsic build up between cleaning as the surface get's more and more porous over time from the cavatation effect. Cavatation bits water pump blades and oil pump gears. No I have no proof that this happens over time but it is worth considering as Cavatation and sonic cleaning have the same forces at work.

On the other hand it is environmental much cleaner then harsh chemicals and one would think it has to be safer then acid baths!
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