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Bach Strad. Friends?


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BADBOY-DON
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Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 2025
Location: EXILED IN GIG HARBOR WA.

PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2002 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey BADBOY-RODD!!!

Shame on you for PICKIN' ON THE BACH-A-HOLICS!!!! kinda fun though isn't it?

OK! GANG!!! TAKE YOUR BEST SHOT!!!!! )))
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ScottA
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Joined: 19 Feb 2002
Posts: 618
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2002 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fans and players of Bach trumpets? A few names you may know:
Classical:
Bud Herseth Chicago Sym.
Ray Mase Julliard School/american Brass Quin
Phil Smith -NY Phil.
George Vosburg-Pittsburg Sym.
Rolf Smedvig-Empire Brass/Soloist
Bill Adam
Michael Sachs-Cleveland Orchestra
Jazz:
Lew Soloff
Dave Douglas
Tim Hagens
Jack Sheldon
Scott Engelbright
Studio:
Malcom McNabb
Gary Grant
Chris Tedesco
Jerry Hey
Charlie Davis

A mere drop in the bucket of top drawer pro players who play Bach trumpets. I know it's not the in thing at the moment to cast allegience to Bach but these names certainly speak for themselves.

Most importantly remember---IT'S NOT THE HORN BUT THE HEART AND SOUL BEHIND IT THAT MATTERS!!!!!!

Keep practicing!

Scott Apelgren
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DaveH
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Joined: 20 Nov 2001
Posts: 3861

PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2002 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no doubt that the Bach Strad has been and probably still remains the benchmark standard for professional trumpets,especially in regard to tone quality.
However,as I contemplate my next purchase of a Bb trumpet(and a Bach Strad IS being seriously considered),I am disgruntled and frustrated by the idea that I could spend a sizeable amount of money and perhaps not receive the value and quality for which this brand of instrument has become synonymous due to a lack of manufacturing consistency and quality.
One might say that problem is true for any product and my reply is that I would not buy ANY product that was insufficient and where I ran a good chance of not receiving proper value for my money.I believe there are other equally good products for which I am far more certain that I am not taking as many chances with inconsistent quality.When I buy a car,for example(although I know that any brand can have problems), I go with a brand that has a history and reputation for reliability and consistent quality.
In today's competitive economy,resting on past accomplishments is insufficient. If Bach wants to continue to maintain its presence as a leader in the maunfacture of professional instruments,then it will need to effectively meet the competition with consistently high quality products,or that competition will eventually take over the market(I think this is already happening as you read the various postings on this forum).
It matters little who plays the instrument today.These people, and those who come along later who will be making their living on the instrument, will buy the products which provide the greatest quality and consistency of performance,since their livelihood will depend on it. If Bach can continue to provide that type of quality product and so maintain their position in the industry by offering consistent quality instruments,that's fine - more power to them. But if they get a reputation for inconsistent quality,then the competitors will gain market share and the list of "who's who" playing Bach trumpets will gradually become shorter. No one is going to spend money to get less value than could be achieved with a competitive product,especially when the product is a "tool"by which someone is making a living.
My opinion,FWIW(but there is some economic reality included).........

[ This Message was edited by: DaveH on 2002-06-19 08:53 ]

[ This Message was edited by: DaveH on 2002-06-19 08:57 ]
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BADBOY-DON
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Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 2025
Location: EXILED IN GIG HARBOR WA.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2002 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2002-06-19 07:22, ScottA wrote:
Fans and players of Bach trumpets? A few names you may know:
Classical:
Bud Herseth Chicago Sym.
Ray Mase Julliard School/american Brass Quin
Phil Smith -NY Phil.
George Vosburg-Pittsburg Sym.
Rolf Smedvig-Empire Brass/Soloist
Bill Adam
Michael Sachs-Cleveland Orchestra
Jazz:
Lew Soloff
Dave Douglas
Tim Hagens
Jack Sheldon
Scott Engelbright
Studio:
Malcom McNabb
Gary Grant
Chris Tedesco
Jerry Hey
Charlie Davis

A mere drop in the bucket of top drawer pro players who play Bach trumpets. I know it's not the in thing at the moment to cast allegience to Bach but these names certainly speak for themselves.

Most importantly remember---IT'S NOT THE HORN BUT THE HEART AND SOUL BEHIND IT THAT MATTERS!!!!!!

Keep practicing!

Scott Apelgren






Thanks, Scott, for taking time to make a really short list of professional BACH-A-HOLICS:)) which in reality is short indeed when one considers the legions of gifted professionals all over the globe.
Although,THAT IS QUITE A LOFTY LIST OF PROFESSIONALS.."IT SHOWS TA' GOYA" ) just how human nature effects the choices we make in our lives and about the items we choose for ourselves.

TRADITION, must have played a HUGE PART in why so many folks still gravitate to the BACH. like bugs..to a BUGLIGHT!
Scott, you said a mouthfull when you said-- "PLEDGING ALLENGENCE" OR THE DESIRE TO PLEASE THEIR MASTER AND TEACHER often truly help build and nurture the trends and choices of students preferences for the BACH label.
This trend continues from one generation to another and the fact the the BACH horns have become the standard of the industry in no surprise.
BUT!!! WHY NOT?...when in reality all these modifications trumpets where really in the beginning were also simply Besson and Benge Clones in "BACHS-SHEEPS CLOTHING"

The master genius...Vincent jumped on the bandwagon and added his talented ingrediants to the stew and the BACH trend and traditions begain a life of its own and the rest is HISTORY.

AND IN TRUTH...NOTHING REALLY RADICALLY OR NEW HAS REALLY CHANGED ...EVEN AFTER ALL THESE YEARS...UNTIL JUST RECENTLY, we now begin to see new leaps in technology and better building techniques are blossoming all over the world. New computer technology and design...Better machining with noticably improved and CONSISTANT quality standards....better finishing materials,
but most of all a new burning desire to see that
the musicans and mfg. want to begin WORKING TOGETHER, with better communication skills.
Both camps appear to take added value in striving to make new BREAK-THROUGH IMPROVEMENTS. Many of the new breed of horn builders are not only gifted craftsman, but are equally gifted trumpet players are gifted "listeners" taking to heart the quest to raise the art and science to a new higher level.
Still with the human factor involved, It is difficult for many seasoned professionals to even begin to think about CHANGING what has given them such great success and that is understandable. Why tamper with success?
Let's face it! Years of practicing habits, (good or bad habits) and learning to deal with the buggaboos of many brass instruments that tend to play sharp or flat...or blow out of pitch center... some horns blow really tight and are restrictive, other are blow with little resistance. Due to years of learned responses, we still tend to gravitate to what we think...FEELS AND SOUNDS FAMILIAR or COMFORTABLE?

As long as there is this HUMAN FACTOR...we will all have the perfect right to stay as we are, in the comfort zone.
GOD FORBID...we leave our MINDS OPEN TO THE POSSIBILITIES that there might be a better mousetrap trumpet out there....just waiting to help improve our musicanship?

The world is FILLED WITH EQUALLY GIFTED AND TALENTED PLAYERS that were BACH-A-HOLICS and are now using other brands, which indeed must prove that they are a million ways to SKIN A BRASS CAT!!!! ))

I applaud your loyality...but again proving that individual choice thankfully stillprevails.
No two players play alike...and I would feel safe to say that no two BACH's play alike as well. So with this in mind. It is still very acceptable to "BACH UNTO OTHERS...BEFORE THEY BACH UNTO YOU!"
Gee, that sounds almost..BIBLICAL! AND ALL THAT JAZZ.
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ScottA
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Joined: 19 Feb 2002
Posts: 618
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2002 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that Badboy Don is understanding my original post. The open minded part was when I decided that maybe there was something better out there for me and I decided to look. I played a lot of horns including some of the new "small-batch" brands. Most of them were great instruments. Some worked ok for me others did not.

It seems that certain purveyors of different brands don't want to acknowledge that someone could play one of those horns and actually decide for themselves that it is not the best choice for them. I think it is safe to say that any player on the list above can choose to play whatever brand insrument they wish, probably at no cost to them. They choose to play Bach. No big deal. Other great players (Doc, Maynard, Wynton, Nick Payton, Maurice Andre......) play other brands way better than I can ever hope to play any horn.

It's about the music, not the horn
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jgadvert
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Joined: 04 Jan 2002
Posts: 1105
Location: Long Island, NY

PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2002 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scott A:

Some well made points about the individual players tastes being so important when it comes to horn selection. Indeed there are many horns priced well under $2,000(particularly used models of pro horns) that can really do well for a particualr job. I'm a Doc Getzen fan too!(does not mean any of you should be!!!!)

Thats why I never chime in about my super horn as a reco (in fact I rarely mention the brand name) unless it is the topic of a particualr post. It just annoyes me when others do otherwise.

I played a strad 37 for years and although not appropriate for my particualr needs, is still a fine horn. Just cause someone can afford a super horn does not mean they can therefore compare everything else to it. A Bach is a Bach and a super horn is a super horn.
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BADBOY-DON
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Joined: 10 Feb 2002
Posts: 2025
Location: EXILED IN GIG HARBOR WA.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2002 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2002-06-19 14:44, ScottA wrote:
I don't think that Badboy Don is understanding my original post. The open minded part was when I decided that maybe there was something better out there for me and I decided to look. I played a lot of horns including some of the new "small-batch" brands. Most of them were great instruments. Some worked ok for me others did not.

It seems that certain purveyors of different brands don't want to acknowledge that someone could play one of those horns and actually decide for themselves that it is not the best choice for them. I think it is safe to say that any player on the list above can choose to play whatever brand insrument they wish, probably at no cost to them. They choose to play Bach. No big deal. Other great players (Doc, Maynard, Wynton, Nick Payton, Maurice Andre......) play other brands way better than I can ever hope to play any horn.

It's about the music, not the horn


Miss understood your post????Humm???? Sounds like we both said about the same thing and you are SAFE TO SAY...that the folks on your list are free to choose any instrument they wish to play....AND IN FACT, THEY VERY OFTEN DO play other brands for certain occations. Just a few weeks ago Ray Vega mentioned that he heard that Brian Lynch...actually was seen playing a BACH for his Ed Palmerie' gig. (but when Brian was here last month...he was playing his 993 Monette for the Seattle gig. Ray and I talked about how some professionals are soooooo retentive in switching brands of horns...while others (himself included love to play many brands of horns and delight in the quest, even during performance.
On his Seattle gig, he was using a new B&S Bach #37ML clone. (He did come out of the closet that night and professed to be a recovering BACH-A-HOLIC but after hearing how beautiful he played that old Bach Flugel but he was quick to admit that he is a "TRUMPET-GEEK" and looooooooves to kick tires in all makes and brands of horns.
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