Bach Strad. Friends?

trickg · Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2002 11:49 am Post subject:

I tend to agree with JGadvert, I "currently" own a Bach but as he has said, I'm killing myself trying to make it happen on the band stand and I know that there are upper level pro horns such as the Callets and the WT, and even the upper level Kanstuls, that would probably blow mine away.

I played a tuned up Benge 90B the other day that was just a dream. I felt that it was way better than my Bach and I consider my Bach to be a pretty decent trumpet.

One day (soon I hope) I'll look into getting something else but for now, the Bach will have to do.
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tom turner · Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2002 7:18 pm Post subject:

Hi,

I had to play my custom Bach 37*/Pilczuk leadpipe Strad on a gig with an 8 piece "beach party" type band this past summer while my Wild Thing was in California for a dent repair.

Man, was it stuffy after playing the WT. I had to really work on that gig, even though this fine custom Strad slots like a dream and has incredible intonation. I had to take a "notch" off the level of solos I played, for the horn wouldn't allow me to so as much.

In the Strad's defense, these horns are purposely made with more resistance and lots of players like it to lean against. However, for hard blowin' gigs with electric instruments that ol' "symphony horn" feels too tight for my preferences. Gee . . . it wasn't ever a problem until I played the WT . . . !

Sincerely,

Tom Turner

rch-tech · Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2002 6:42 am Post subject:

My lesson teacher in high school cause I bought my Bach without him going along with me. I thought I knew it all.
I played a few then found the Large Bore Bach Model to be the one I wanted.
I love the sound that I had in high school with that thing. I do believe it was my sound rather than my technical ability which allowed me to play 1st chair in symphony band.
I played lead in jazz on that but the highest now we had was an optional 8va g3 (therefore g4 during the "Coconut Champagne" trumpet solo by Maynard's band).
On a good day I could it that but really in high school I topped out at a solid Eb3. I peeled paint.
HOWEVER, after putting the horn away since my freshman year of college and just now picking this up. And converting my chops to a more effecient setup, I am noticing some stuffiness in that horn. And latelyt the valves have required quite a bit of oiling. Still its the only horn I have (except for a bundy that got me to 1st chair that my brother has in Toledo).
What I am getting at is, I feel like I have tasted chocolate for the first time and now I want to run out and try all the different kinds.
Its time to at least see if I like anything other than Bach. I truly love my back and even if I replace it someday, I'll don't think I'll ever part with it...we've had too much history together.

NelleTrumpet · Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2002 8:20 pm Post subject:

I don’t have experience with any trumpets other than Bachs except for my first rental that I only played for a few months until my dad found a used 1960s Bach TR300 for $100 (4 month’s rental fees). I love my Bach 37, even though I know it’s the same as (most) everybody else’s. I got it back in Jr high from a music store in Cleveland. This old guy ran it, and he had the horn available in his place for a nice price (my folks aren’t exactly made of money) without any wait. He personally play tested the horns himself so I lucked out and got a “good” Bach. Given my inclination as a symphonic player, it’s probably the right horn for me. My teacher plays a Bach tunable bell model, though he does have a Yammie for his back up horn.
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bachstrad72 · Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2002 9:19 pm Post subject:

I play and love my Bach 72* Bb. It is the best horn that I have ever played on, and believe me, I've tried em all, and when new things come out, I try them too. I purchased the horn used, but in stock condition. Though through the years I have tweeked it slightly, it is still a Bach, and it is still a great Bach. I think the reasons that Bach's are so widely trashed are simply that 1.) Bach's are relatively speaking on the low end of the price spectrum for professional trumpets, and 2.) Most of the Bach's out there are new, and new Bach trumpets tend to be a little stuffy and unresponsive at first, til they become "broken in". So I implore all you out there who havnt given up on Bach yet to stick it out a little bit longer, once you get used to your Bach and once it has a chance to settle into itself, you will have yourself one of the finest horns on the market. Remember, ulitimately it is the player not the trumpet that sounds good.

_PhilPicc · Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2002 9:28 pm Post subject:

I don't think the Bach was designed to be THE horn for every type of music. There are a lot of horns out there designed for specific types of playing and or multiply styles of playing. So is the Bach to an extent. It has served a lot of players very well for a lot of years.

It seems to me that when most comparisons are made the reference is to a Bach. I wonder why?

I'm on the symphonic side of playing and there are a whole lot of horns that I just do not see in my realm. Just Because I have not seen them does not mean they do not exist in
my little world. I am sure the WT and Callet etc. are great horns and are probabely used in symphoneys and concert bands.

It would be interesting to see what horn is used most in these venues. My guess would be Bach, because of reputation (which you earn) brain washing or what ever. I don't know.

TMO(Thats My Opinion)
Phil
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Trptbenge · Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2002 5:12 am Post subject:

I have played many excellent Bachs. I have even found some newer ones I like. But I find that they are inconsistent.

Today, there is a wider selection of quality horns available then in years past. If I had to chose between a Strad and Yamahas new Xeno line I would choose the Xeno. I have found that they are much more consistent and responsive.

Kanstul, who makes Besson, The Wild Thing, Callet Horns and their own line, are producing some outstanding horns. I used to own a Marvin Stamm New French Besson that was better then any of the new Strads that I have played. The callet Jazz is an excellent all around horn. Kanstuls 1500 series horns are also excellent as is their Chicago line. I would recommend that anyone looking to buy a new horn try as many of the different brands that they can.

Back to Bach for a minute. I have owned several Bachs and my favorites have been early Elkharts. I understand that they are the closest Elkhart models to the Mt. Vernon horns. However, the two Mt. Vernons I have played left me feeling luke warm about them. I realize it may have only been those two horns. I really liked the New York Bachs I played but they were a little out of my price range.

Well, after all this Bach talk - what do I play?
I play a 1956 Burbank Benge 3X in mint condition. It belonged to my first trumpet teacher when he played lead for the Tommy Dorsey band in the 50's. It is a great all-around horn and since I am a horn dog I have played it side by side with most of the above horns plus a Lawler and a Blackburn and have not found a horn that I liked as well as my Benge. Which brings me to my final points.

There are two things that will determine whether someone likes a horn. First, some horns just fit a player better. meaning that our own physical make up, sound and style seem to work naturally with some horns better than others. Secondly, and very important, your mouthpiece can make a huge difference. Lee adams let me try a Wayne Bergeron Mouthpiece a few months ago that totally changed my playing. It was absolutely the best mouthpiece for me. That is why I recommend that players try changing mouthpieces before they change horns. It is much cheaper and easier to do.

ScreamMachine · New Member Joined: 18 Feb 2002 Posts: 1

It saddens me to see that people think that Bach's are still worthy purchases. I not only worked for a major instrument dealer, but I am a professional player as well. While working in the retail field I tried out many horn makes. I've tried what was to identical horns of Bach, Yamaha, King, Conn, Stomvi, and Schilke and can say that Bach was the worst hor out there. As far as pro playing, I can't remember the last time I sat in a section with someone who boasted about the great new Bach horn. The only true pro players that are using Bach's are using vintage Bach's from a time when they knew how to make quality not quantity. The few other newer Bach players have had so much work done that they were nothing like the origional horn. As far as the guy claiming he knows sales figures of 95% in an earlier post, I hope he doesn't run a business or he'll be closing his doors soon!

mistrad37 · Posted: Wed Apr 03, 2002 6:20 pm Post subject:

brenter · Veteran Member Joined: 14 Nov 2001 Posts: 135

Has anyone tried the Holton T101 line of horns, which are supposed to be copies of Mount Vernons. There was someone I knew in college that had one, and I thought it was better than the Strad I had. I've also read some very good reviews on the internet regarding them.

Any thoughts?

Garroid · Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 8:43 am Post subject:

As a general rule, I don't like strads - with 2 exceptions.

1. An old 4-digit serial# strad with all the laquer stripped that I played at ft sill; I offered the guy 2 grand for it and he almost slugged me for suggesting that it was for sale.
2. Scotty Englebright
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rlspitzer · Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 9:43 am Post subject:

I've played on Strads for 15 years and love them. They have by far the best sound. I recently checked out a couple of Yamahas as of late and was not impressed.

Nicholas Dyson · Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 11:37 am Post subject:

The only Bach I ever liked was an old 239G C trumpet with a Blackburn 20 leadpipe and a Dick Akright tuneable bell conversion. Then again, I've completely sworn off playing C trumpet now...

It's been my experience that many orchestral players play the Bach C trumpets. Some because they like them, and some because someone has convinced them that you can only play Bachs in the big symphonies. They swear by them because "that's what Bud plays".

Bach's are lower standard pro line horns. Bar none, you will get a better built horn from any of the hand-makers. The earlier poster that was talking about everyone having quality control issues is right, although it seems that the other makers aren't quite as in a hurry to get 5 gazillion horns out on the market. Having the exact same quality control percentage of good horns vs bad horns is exacerbated by the huge number of horns they put out.

I better qualify this by saying that I play jazz and lead. No legit at all. (I dont like it, it doesn't like me), and I haven't played in a section with a Bach for a long time. It's all Kanstuls, Yamahas, Calicchio and WTs. (Notice the Yamaha in there? They put out a consistent horn.... not neccassarily the best horn, but VERY consistent from horn to horn.)
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mark936 · Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 11:58 am Post subject:

Re: No pro players on new Bachs--

I ran into a Pro player by the name of Gary Grant at Bob Reeves a couple of months ago.

He played my Calicchio, said he used to play Calicchios and that he liked the centered core sound from my horn.

When I asked him what he played now he said, "I play a Bach, I play the new Bachs."

I assume he is not paying for his horns.
FWIW

He has a website if you don't know the name Gary Grant.

BADBOY-DON · Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 12:20 pm Post subject:

Nicholas Dyson · Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2002 1:57 pm Post subject:

Hey Don, some interesting thinking happening...

I don't play C trumpet anymore, because I don't enjoy it. After playing Bb, C horns just feel, and therefore sound suspect to my ear. I found that jumping from horn to horn to horn, especially since they all play (and you have to approach them) differently I wasn't playing to my potential on any of them. If I were an orchestral player, I would probably stop playing Bb, etc. I'm of the mindset right now where I want to get away from the Jack of all trades, master of none thing and really get at the kind of trumpet playing I dig, jazz. Blowin baby!

When I was in school, I did the whole gambit, and until recently owned about a dozen horns. I sold my Shilke P5-4, Bach 229G C, Shilke E3L Eb, and my Yamaha Heavy Wall Bb, (the ole Mark 1 from way back...) and Yamaha 6310Z Shew horn. At this point, I just wasn't using them.

Now I play the same equipment all the time.

Calicchio Studio 2 , (or 1S-2) in raw brass
Yamaha YFL-731 flugel in silver

Monette B5L (as soon as that sucka arrives!!)
Marcinciewicz No. 5 FLB

It's my experience that if transposing is required (in my world reading C head charts) then it's easier to keep track of where I am when I only have the Bb to worry about. However, I tend to transpose diatonically, rather than intervalically, if that makes any sense)

I can't see limiting any kind of creativity by not playing anything but Bb trumpets. the trumpet you are playing does not delineate your creativity, it's purely a vehicle. I find that my creativity is heightened, or at least more accessible because I haven't confused my muscle memory by playing "other" keyed instruments. The Bb is my voice, the other horns don't sound like me.

Plus, I can't afford another Monette mp for a C trumpet. That's as good a reason as any... he he

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[ This Message was edited by: Nicholas Dyson on 2002-06-03 16:58 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Nicholas Dyson on 2002-06-03 17:02 ]

Apolloman · New Member Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 3

Gotta give props to the bach, man! I love my vernon. Sure, monettes might, and I mean might, play easier, but they just dont sound right, as for the wild thing, Ive never even seen one. I think too many trumpet players search for the solutions to their playing problems in their equipment when they should be fixing themselves. Players have been succesful for years on the standard bach and yamaha or what-have-you models, thats why they are the standards. Get a standard model, and learn to play it, not only will this help you sound better (bachs sound better, sorry, they do) but it will also make you more employable, because most people do play bachs or their equivalent, and you just wont blend right if you play something else! An all bach or yamaha orchestra section wont hire someone with a wild thing, even if they are a great player, because the sound will not be right. As for monettes, there are only a few towns where those are used. I think too many people complain about their equipment, just learn to play the equipment youve got!

ScottA · Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2002 7:04 am Post subject:

Wow. To Bach or not to Bach, that is apparently the question! I have recently been on a new horn quest. I have always played Bach trumpets from the time I was 16 (now 43). I work in a small music store so I get the chance to play a lot of instruments new and used. I had heard so many raves about the Wild Thing that I had to try it. It must be the answer. (Annoying game show buzzing sound) Not. The horn did not work for me at all. The person that bought it from me loves it.

I found some great horns and switched for awhile to different models but was never happy. The "Z" horn was fun to play and smooth from top to bottom. The Vintage One had a unique sound and looked way cool. But none of them had the sound I was used to hearing and that's what it comes down to. We each have a sound in our head that we want to have other people hear coming from our horn when we play. We choose the equipment that best facilitates that.

I landed on a Bach 37. It is annoying that you have to play a number of similar Bach trumpets to find one that is acceptable but when you find it you can stop looking. At least I could.

The horn that came the next closest in sound for me was the new Getzen Severinsen model in Gold-plate. A great horn.

[ This Message was edited by: ScottA on 2002-06-19 10:50 ]

DaveH · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Nov 2001 Posts: 3861

This thread is about Bach Strad Friends? My opinion is that the Bach Strad would have more friends if "he/she" treated "his/her" friends more "consistently".

I'd seriously think of getting a Strad to replace mine that was stolen, but I am so tempted by the competition,where I am more sure that I will get my money's worth in terms of quality and less taking of chances.I am almost afraid to order a Strad by mail, and that's about the only way to take advantage of the various options that Bach makes available,by going through a large dealer who has many in stock(e.g.Giardinelli,etc.).Local music stores in this area simply do not stock a selection of pro horns.
Even with a trial period,you can't play them side by side for comparison.
I have a feeling that Bach makes a great sounding horn,but they need to get some consistent quality control and manufacturing consistency going so people like me aren't so hesitant to buy them.Otherwise,the competition is going to take over - maybe it already has?

Emb_Enh · Veteran Member Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Posts: 455

trptfun wrote>>>With all this talk about the Wild Thing trumpet and the new Xeno's, is there anybody pout there who is still a fan of Bach Stradivarius horns?<<<
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not really

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