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Mr. G
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Joined: 28 Aug 2009
Posts: 7
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 Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:02 am Post subject: Schmidt Rotary trumpets? |
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Hello to all of you rotary trumpet experts out there 
I'm looking for my first rotary trumpet to get me started. I want something decent, but can't afford (or justify) a Schagerl!
I found this on German ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.de/B-Konzerttrompete-Drehventile-Fabr-Schmidtco_W0QQitemZ110454107052QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBlasinstrumente?hash=item19b793ebac
Does anyone know anything about these horns? I ask because I've seen Schmidt rotaries mentioned on here a few times (is it Martin Schmidt??). Is this ebay horn the same thing, or something completely different? Thanks (from an American trying to figure out this German trumpet thing)! |
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Flattergrub
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Joined: 01 Sep 2008
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:25 am Post subject: |
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Here is Martin's web site.
http://professional-trumpets.com/index_en.htm
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Maarten van Weverwijk
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:39 am Post subject: |
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No, Schmidtco is Schmidtco and is actually one of the worst rotary brands ever made.
One of my friends (a regular TH poster) used to own one and called it lovingly his Sh*tco.
Sorry,
MvW.
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Mr. G
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Joined: 28 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:13 am Post subject: |
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Thank you Maarten for confirming that! I was afraid it wasn't the same thing, and being that I haven't personally laid eyes on a lot of these brands before, I wanted to check it out!
Thanks again! |
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Maarten van Weverwijk
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:28 am Post subject: |
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You're welcome!
There's absolutely nothing wrong with Martin Schmidt though.
MvW.
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Toolbox:
Schagerl Charis C & Bb pistons, Schagerl Hörsdorf C & Bb rotaries, Yamaha YTR-9630 Eb-only,
Selmer´60 &´68 piccolos, Getzen 810-C & 3850-Bb cornets, Egger Ehe & Haas Baroque tpts, etc. |
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KevinInGeorgia
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:34 am Post subject: |
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Maarten,
Could you enlighten us trumpeters from the US on what are some good buys in Rotary Trumpets?? What would be the rotary equivalent to something like the Olds Ambassador? ( Inexpensive but dependable)
Thanks,
Kevin
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Kevin M.
Atlanta Community Symphony Orchestra
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Maarten van Weverwijk
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Kevin,
I think this thread will keep you reading for a while:
http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=72031&highlight=rotary
(the search engine emphasized the word "rotary" all the time, sorry)
By just writing "rotary" in "Keywords" of the search engine or/and my full name in "Author" you'll get a ship load of extra information on rotaries too.
When needed I'll be happy to answer any additional questions.
Best regards,
MvW.
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Toolbox:
Schagerl Charis C & Bb pistons, Schagerl Hörsdorf C & Bb rotaries, Yamaha YTR-9630 Eb-only,
Selmer´60 &´68 piccolos, Getzen 810-C & 3850-Bb cornets, Egger Ehe & Haas Baroque tpts, etc. |
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Irving
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Joined: 11 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| I had a Sch(m)itco trumpet. I no longer own it. It was among the WORST trumpets that I have ever played. It was THE WORST rotary trumpet I have played, and if you don't know how bad a rotary trumpet can be, then just by a Schmitco. |
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Maarten van Weverwijk
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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As you can see, Irving keeps fond memories of his instrument. 
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Toolbox:
Schagerl Charis C & Bb pistons, Schagerl Hörsdorf C & Bb rotaries, Yamaha YTR-9630 Eb-only,
Selmer´60 &´68 piccolos, Getzen 810-C & 3850-Bb cornets, Egger Ehe & Haas Baroque tpts, etc. |
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KevinInGeorgia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:28 am Post subject: |
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Maarten,
Have you played any of the "Gansch-Horn" from Schagerl?? Just curious to the reason behind the design??
Kevin
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Kevin M.
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Maarten van Weverwijk
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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Kevin,
Trumpets with up-right rotary valves were/are quite popular in concert-, marching- and military bands in certain parts of Germany and Austria. One of the main advantages of them is that they can be played with one hand (virtually impossible with a normal rotary tpt) which comes in really handy with fast mute swaps or when playing the trumpet whilst riding a horse (back then).
The common design of these instruments is very similar to that of a piston trumpet, with the tuningslide before the valve cluster. Well known brands of these trumpets were Scherzer, Scherzer Augsburg (the builder of A.Scherbaum's piccolo, not related to the other Scherzer) and Barth. Here is a picture of a Barth tpt for sale at Dillon's:
http://www.dillonmusic.com/usedimages/04122006102504AM.jpg
Now, Robert Schagerl and one of his best friends Thomas Gansch were looking into designing a professional instrument for Thomas, that had the best of both worlds (piston & rotary). They kept the usual rotary set-up (short l.pipe, tuningslide after the valve cluster) and bore sizes, but wanted to tilt the bell a bit since Thomas' natural angle of playing is slightly pointing towards the floor and also wanted to use an extremely fast valve cluster. What started as an experiment and fun project ended up becoming a complete series of top level up-right rotary trumpets and flügelhorns.
With my very limited experience (less than 10 minutes of fooling around on one of them) I can only tell that it is one of the easiest, most flexible and fastest responding trumpets I ever ever played. The extremely quick and short valve action might need a small mental adjustment from the player's end, but I only see advantages.
Sound wise I don't see any reason why one couldn't play a Gansch-Horn in whatever kind of group (even symphony orchestra...), but admittedly the looks of the instrument might attract too much attention whilst playing Mahler V. For any other type of music it might very well be the best trumpet you've ever played. If you ever get the chance to play one, you should give it a try; it's pretty stunning really.
http://www.schagerl.at/new_pages/eigen_dreh/new_design/ganschhorn.jpg
MvW.
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Toolbox:
Schagerl Charis C & Bb pistons, Schagerl Hörsdorf C & Bb rotaries, Yamaha YTR-9630 Eb-only,
Selmer´60 &´68 piccolos, Getzen 810-C & 3850-Bb cornets, Egger Ehe & Haas Baroque tpts, etc.
Last edited by Maarten van Weverwijk on Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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etc-etc
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:43 am Post subject: |
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Off-topic, but ... would you buy the trumpet from this designer?
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Maarten van Weverwijk
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:14 am Post subject: |
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I wouldn't have any trouble buying a trumpet from Jack...
I just wouldn't lend him my car, chain-saw or wife though.
MvW.
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Toolbox:
Schagerl Charis C & Bb pistons, Schagerl Hörsdorf C & Bb rotaries, Yamaha YTR-9630 Eb-only,
Selmer´60 &´68 piccolos, Getzen 810-C & 3850-Bb cornets, Egger Ehe & Haas Baroque tpts, etc. |
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Maarten van Weverwijk
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KevinInGeorgia
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:25 am Post subject: |
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Don't TEMPT me .. Especially when the exchange rate is so bad.
I'll have to try one of the Gansch horns when I get the chance.. They just intrigue me. I saw the same style horn being played in Mnozil Brass. It has a unique sound.
Kevin
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Kevin M.
Atlanta Community Symphony Orchestra
Athens Symphony Orchestra
"Joy is not in things; it is in us”
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Maarten van Weverwijk
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| KevinInGeorgia wrote: | | ...Don't TEMPT me .. Especially when the exchange rate is so bad... |
Well, look at it this way Kevin:
You could have it sent to your Holiday address in Germany and pick it up next month.
This way you wouldn't have to pay the (at least) $135 insured shipping cost to the USA, nor the 20+% of import tax. But more importantly, you could take it to Brasserie Hamburg to have it completely cleaned and aligned.....
Now, compared to a Schagerl, Thein, Lechner or Kühn this Martin Schmidt rotary might not be the best invention since sliced bread, but considering the price (especially if it stays this low) it is a VERY decent professional entry level rotary trumpet that might be just what you (or someone else) are looking for right now.
Sorry for not minding my own business,
 MvW.
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Toolbox:
Schagerl Charis C & Bb pistons, Schagerl Hörsdorf C & Bb rotaries, Yamaha YTR-9630 Eb-only,
Selmer´60 &´68 piccolos, Getzen 810-C & 3850-Bb cornets, Egger Ehe & Haas Baroque tpts, etc. |
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GordonH
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:01 am Post subject: |
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There is a Lechner on Ebay.co.uk at the moment for £850.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lechner-Bb-Rotary-Trumpet_W0QQitemZ120491820259QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MusicalInstr_Brass_RL?hash=item1c0ddf44e3
However he wants paid by bank transfer which would make me a bit nervous.
There was a scherzer listed this morning on a buy it now of £600 and its already been sold. It looked like a pre 1990 one and it had been replated.
My feeling is that if I was getting another rotary I would want a vienna key and that usually means special ordering an instrument which can be difficult given the language barrier.
I might consider a Dowids but I don't know if there is anyone there who speaks English. My German is OK, but I would not trust it to be able to describe exactly what I wanted in case I ended up with a tuba.
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KevinInGeorgia
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:10 am Post subject: |
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I guess it's just time to save up and handpick a rotary when I'm in Austria or Germany. If I save up for it my wife will understand and she can even help me get exactly what I want ( She is fluent in German)
So much Temptation....
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Kevin M.
Atlanta Community Symphony Orchestra
Athens Symphony Orchestra
"Joy is not in things; it is in us”
Richard Wagner |
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Maarten van Weverwijk
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Gordon,
That Lechner looks very nice indeed.
I can't decide if the seller can be trusted or not, but he offers "picking up" and the price is (still) great.
MvW.
_________________
Toolbox:
Schagerl Charis C & Bb pistons, Schagerl Hörsdorf C & Bb rotaries, Yamaha YTR-9630 Eb-only,
Selmer´60 &´68 piccolos, Getzen 810-C & 3850-Bb cornets, Egger Ehe & Haas Baroque tpts, etc. |
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etc-etc
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| Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| GordonH wrote: |
(snip)
My feeling is that if I was getting another rotary I would want a vienna key and that usually means special ordering an instrument which can be difficult given the language barrier.
(snip)
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I did not know trumpets could be furnished with vienna keys (would these be the of the same design as on vienna horns)?
| GordonH wrote: |
(snip)
I might consider a Dowids but I don't know if there is anyone there who speaks English. My German is OK, but I would not trust it to be able to describe exactly what I wanted in case I ended up with a tuba.
(snip) |
A dimensional drawing might help! |
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