That nasty high note partial that just won't slot...

LeeC · Heavyweight Member Joined: 25 Feb 2003 Posts: 5154

Typically it's somewhere around G# or a flat. In case of this one it's the High G: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDhKty0gz6Q right at the last chord.

Great lead player though. I kind of liked the F# that "locked in" but i sort of think he rather wanted to hit the G instead. F#/G flat being the tri-tone and good blues note. Later the lead player sails to DHC.

Seems he re-sets or grabs a breath and the G finally comes out followed by the DHC. But these things are frustrating.

Best I can I will try and always stay below the threshold of a possible "lost partial". Funny thing is the better range a player has the more prone he is to these funky gaps. Has got more notes to lose!

All these cats (on Buddy's band) must be grandparents by now. Check out the puffy sleeved shirts: A style once copied by High School jazz bands through the nation.

2-5-1 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 21 Nov 2006 Posts: 917

I dont know man...the chord is (Bb pitch) C13 (#11). Putting a G on top of that creates a b9 interval that sounds awful. I have experienced what that guy is going through, and for me it deals more with not concentrating on the note I'm playing, but thinking more about the note i want to end on. In this case, its the Dbl C hes probably thinking about, and not the f#. However, this is all my opinion...
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LeeC · Heavyweight Member Joined: 25 Feb 2003 Posts: 5154

B Fat? Well in concert pitch i suppose.

I'm hearing the G as the fifth and DHC as the root on some version of a "C" chord for B Flat trumpet. Again, The G flat/F# fits and would have been cool however he doesn't seem comfortable with the pitch.

mulligan stew · Heavyweight Member Joined: 02 Jul 2003 Posts: 1649

NickD · Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:07 am Post subject: Too bad

Actually, my heart goes out to the guy. Buddy probably lit him up after the gig, as he was wont to do. It strikes me that being on Buddy's band would get me trained up to the notion that, unless I was 100% sure of the grandstand note, I wouldn't go for it front of a mercurial personality like the BR!

IMHO...

Nick
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gbdeamer · Heavyweight Member Joined: 31 Dec 2007 Posts: 823

sdhinote · Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:07 pm Post subject:

OMG! It really doesn't matter what he missed and what chord "erupted" out of that mess! Trying four or more times to get there is just embarassing! I don't recognize him (but I can't recognize half the guys I know from pictures of them in the 70s - we all looked stupid), but I'm sure he didn't have a job for much longer in Buddy's band.
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yodafan · Veteran Member Joined: 30 May 2006 Posts: 157

Na that guy sounds great. I like his sound and style. I think it makes it more exciting if it isn't perfect like he is really going for it, a lot of fun. Lin Biviano was like that very exciting and played each note like it was the last.

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sdhinote · Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:32 pm Post subject:

Like all great players, Lin Biviano being among them, there are some theatrics involved whilst onstage (notice he no longer has to do the limbo in his later years to play a high note). Lin set the style of playing for Buddy's bands in the 70s for those who followed; Dave Stahl, Charlie Davis, Lynn Nicholson, Eric Myashiro, (and he who shall not be named who ran off with Buddy's money...) to name a few, coming in and not missing a beat (or many notes). I don't think this guy was acting, and should have known better if he was that tired. Certainly, my opinion. We all have them.
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etc-etc · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 2114

fraserhutch · Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:04 pm Post subject:

Hmmm, that's interesting. I don't recall any examples of exposed m9th intervals in Kenton big band music other than the b9 of a dominant seventh chord, which is usually the only place it sounds good.

I may be wrong though.

I recall that Bobby Brookmeyer (sp?) was fond of tossing them in for the sheer dissonant effect. Maybe Thad too, but I doubt it.....

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LeeC · Heavyweight Member Joined: 25 Feb 2003 Posts: 5154

I like to find a pitch, hammer it and not try for anything else.

Am generally good for an F# to G any time of the night so long as there is time to gear up for it after a long blow. The G is harder now as I age. Sometimes the director holds the note longer than anticipated wherein I may lose the ability to sustain it.

If it's the root note and won't hold or I feel like it's going to slip? I shift down to the seventh and play a few licks to create excitement. Maybe settling to a fifth to seventh trill or jazz lick.

Oddly on the "wig" setting I have the same trouble on the G as the scream player on Buddy's band. But my A is solid (on the "wig"). A note I can't hit with consistency on my regular, receded jaw setting.

There is some Buddy Rich recording with Bobby Shew on lead where he slips a bit on the G. Might be the "Channel One Suite". Yeah, think it's that one. Perhaps the really solid scream players have trouble with the G but have the A to DHC pretty good.

And then the regular Joes (like me lol) have trouble with the G#.

mcgovnor · Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:59 pm Post subject: yeah

I played on Buddy's band 10 times over the years, and I'm really amused by the stuff I'm reading here.
I'm going to refrain from digging in, but this much I will say.
The ideas expressed regarding the people mentioned as laying down the concept for playing the book, as well as the theatrics that accompany it and the efficacy of same.. it's just coming from dreamland.
Additionally, the best trumpet playing lead players that played on the band, save Charley, have not even been mentioned, and I can understand why.
It's a public forum, so that's all I'm going to say regarding that.
AFA centering in on certain notes mentioned, search a balance in your equipment that works for you and learn to relax enough to produce the notes with as little interference as possible, through practice. They're all there, and can be played all day. Concert a flat is the strangest for almost all guys. Open helps, first valve with slide out helps, but adrenaline and fear probably help the most.

razeontherock · Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:02 pm Post subject:

Well, I am an odd duck.

I never have problems with Ab slotting, but Bb? Forget it.

Lee, the F# would be the #11, so if that is the chord, it would be a correct note and a much better choice than the G.

I'd love to know who the better lead players were in Buddy's band; I never followed him much, but did see him live once in '78 or so. I'm gonna guess Buddy Childers would make a short list!

mcgovnor · Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:28 pm Post subject: not going to

Oh yeah, sure. I'm just going to step right in there. Naming em' all for ya.
Of course. Yes, just listen to me..
No, sorry my friend. That's a journey you'll take yourself. Having said that, I'll just mention, time, sound, pitch, accuracy, taste, humility.
Leadership.
(If you saw him in 1978, I may have been there, though I was playing on the band with two illnesses and following surgery, that year, and was on and off a few times.)
And that was concert A flat I mentioned, not trumpet A flat.

BobList · Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:56 pm Post subject:

McGov.. You would know for sure..would Buddy have "had a pleasant chat" with that player afterwards?, or just let it go, based on the guy's playing history, and write it off as a bad night?

( I'm sure "don't let it happen again" would've been mentioned either way)

On a side rant,

Personally, I would rather have a hard-ass as a leader than the ones I deal with currently.. they acknowledge the guy can't cut the book, but refrain from changing anything to avoid hurt feelings.. awwwwwww.. too bad. This day and age sucks, it's like, "everybody's a winner and we all get a trophy!!"
A player oughtta know DEEP INSIDE if he's cutting the book or not, and give it up voluntarily before somebody tells him to. When he's shedded enough to play it, then request it back. Bear in mind, that statement comes from me dealing with rehearsal and community big bands. The pro outfits wouldn't have that happen. The boss is the boss. Period. (Iam not talking about the guy in the video we just saw of Buddy's band.)

Bob
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mcgovnor · Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:17 pm Post subject: well

As many guys can tell you, and they can tell you more then I can, Buddy wasn't consistent in his critique, so to speak. I heard from the first guys, the 60's guys, that he wasn't about that then. Sometimes the stuff would be all over the place, and he wouldn't say anything. Other times he would just like a guy, or a bunch of guys, and let it all go by. On the other hand, there were times when the band sounded great, in every way, and some little thing would go down, and he would hit the roof. Outside influences would also effect his perception of what was going on on the band stand. The road and the whole thing can be a funny place. Occasionally, if Buddy really liked a guy, he would speak to him, in his room, at dinner, or in some hanging out environment, in an advisory way. When he spoke to me this way, I didn't always appreciate it, but he was always right on the money. The band was his, and it was his livlihood. His ego and entire career was wrapped up in every gig. Lot's of guys, guys who could really play, treated the gig like it was THEIR gig. But it was his. That's really saying something. I don't think I really understood that, then.

coop8va72 · Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:47 pm Post subject: Re:

This chart does end on a F#.

dbacon · Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:56 pm Post subject:

You finger that open, don't ya Nick?

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coop8va72 · Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:17 pm Post subject: Re:

Ha, hey Dave how are you doing? Long time....