Connstelation and King Silver Flair

trumpetheart · Veteran Member Joined: 25 Nov 2004 Posts: 159

Hi,

does anybody know, exactly, how the Connstelation and the King Silver Flair become student( intermediate) level trumpets?

Many years ago they were considered some of the best trumpets available, and now, simply student models. Some say they are still very good but most does not consider them as pro trumpets.

I know that since the UMI era these trumpets and the others under it´s command decreased their quality.

Did UMI change the classification of the Connstelation and the Silver Flair to student model as part of a new management or was UMI forced to classify them that way because of the clear lower quality felt by the consumers?

roynj · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Oct 2002 Posts: 1079

As we all know, the great old design Conn Connstellation (38b) really isn't in current production and nor is the King Silver Flair. The current Connstellation is model 52B, but it's not considered a "student" horn. They still market it as a pro horn. The Silver Flair current model 2055 is also marketed as an upline horn, but not to the level of the vintage Silver Flair of the old days. I guess these horns in current production might be called semi-pro or something like that. I've played on the 52b, and found it to be quite nice, and surely suitable for playing in professional situations (shows, jazz ensembles). It didn't strike me as a good orchestral trumpet, being on the too bright side. As for the current silver flair, I've not played one and only seen pictures. It looks a lot like the Conn, and maybe in the UMI world it's the same horn. Maybe someone out there knows if they are cousins. Cheers, Roy

Roel · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:28 am Post subject:

The King Legend (2070) and new Conn Connstellation (52B) are almost identical. Only difference is the bell, on the King one-piece, on the Conn two-piece.
The new King Silver Flair (2055) is entirely different from the two above.
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gregplo · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:47 am Post subject:

I once owned both a King Legend 2070 L Bore and Conn 52B L Bore (both .462 bore) at the same time. The King had a more open blow than the Conn, and played darker than the Conn as well. The Conn was a good horn for the money, but it could be a bit on the bright side in certain situations, and blew tighter above the staff than the Legend.

I also had an opportunity to play the "new" Silver Flair 2055 against the Legend, and found the Legend to be the better horn (remember, this is totally subjective) in terms of overall tone. The blow was quite similar between the two horns...with the Silver Flair being more open than the Conn 52B but a little tighter than the Legend.

I also got to play a vintage Silver Flair, which was a totally different horn from either the Legend or the 2055. The vintage Silver Flair I played was very nice. It had an open blow and in my hands would be more of a Lead sound than anything else. In fact the gentleman who owns it also has a Bach Strad 43 that he uses for more legit settings.

Keep in mind that variations in manufacturing likely played a part in all of that, so your mileage may vary.
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Capt.Kirk · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Feb 2009 Posts: 2516

What happened is large corperation bought them out and then went to work killing the market niche for thse models and pushing them towards their cash cow Bach! Conn Selmer Steinway does not want anything to compete with their Bach Stradivarius so anything that they bought out that could compete with it and take market share away which is mostly parents of H.S. aged band students and College kids. So they either redesign them completely or made enough changes that they lost their souls they have done it with all serious contenders to the Bach line up. Benge,King Liberty,King Silver Flair,Conn Constellation , Buescher Aristocrat,Super Aristocrat,400 and SUper 400 you name it once Conn Selmer Steinway get's a hold of it down it goes in every way until they eliminate it all together like what they did to Holton!!!! Conn Selmer Steinway is a horrendous beast that goes around eating those that get in it's way any brand sold tot hem ends up sub par in almost all ways while they promote one cash cow. The do not even promote the Coutoise(sp) line in this country because again they are afraid it will interfere with their cash cow the Bach Strad, line!

I will not buy anything they sell directly because I do not want a dime of my money going into their coffers. I think they are the worst thing to ever happen to American Instrument makers all they know how to do is kill and destroy those companies they buy. THey never leave a good thing alone they always find a way to make a good design less then it was when they bought a company! In principal alone it is completly wrong and evil!
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Yammie · Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:36 pm Post subject: Brand name reuse

What really happened is the new owners of the Conn and King names wanted to leverage the legendary names of Connstellation and Silver Flair. They no longer make the horns those names belong to, so they reused them on unrelated products. The Mustang II of the Charlie's Angels era had a similarly fictitious relationship with its original namesake.

The tweo new trumpets you mention may be decent horns, but it seems disrespectful of the new brand owners to use the names in this way. Whether driven by cluelessness or willful attempted deception, in my mind it is a Bad Thing.

Sadly, they never asked me. The music business would run so much smoother if they WOULD just ask me first...

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A.N.A.Mendez · Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: Brand name reuse

thedevilisbad · Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:34 pm Post subject:

I'm still trying to find out where my King 2000 fits into the equation...
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chops375 · Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:53 pm Post subject:

To my knowledge, the Connstellation presently made is still considered a pro horn, but no way plays like the old 38B.

Capt.Kirk · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Feb 2009 Posts: 2516

It is always always bad when one company get's bought out by a competitior seldom does the rival product either stay around or stay around in a form that is competitive with the cash cow of the other company. It is so very sad. It ahs happened all through out history.
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Crazy Finn · Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:21 pm Post subject:

I know that I posted this recently in another topic but it's relevant again.

King and Conn are owned by the Selmer Company/Steinway Musical Instruments.Collectively it owns: Bach, Selmer, King, Conn, Holton, Martin, Leblanc and Benge (the name anyway). So what happened to those old trumpet model names? They met the marketing department of the corporation.

It's sad when one corporation owns so many of the old trumpet brands.