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JoeCool
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Location: Cedar Park, TX
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 Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:28 am Post subject: Zeus Olympus vs. LeBlanc Sandoval |
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Has anyone here played these two horns? How do they compare to each other? I have played the Sandoval and regret letting it go, but not the Olympus. I am contemplating a purchase of one or the other. Thanks for any input. 
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textr
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:54 am Post subject: |
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Joe Cool,
I have played on both of those horns and my pick would be the Leblanc Sandoval, the Olympus is a .470 bore and it is a little unforgiving sometimes. The Leblanc is a .463 and it to my taste is just perfect , not too small, not too large. The Leblanc Sandoval models are really very good horns... if you get a good one . I have played a couple that I was not impressed with. I prefer the silver plated models.
There is one on ebay right now that looks to be in excellent shape. |
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Bill Blackwell
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| JoeCool wrote: | | ... How do they compare to each other? ... I am contemplating a purchase of one or the other... |
The Zeus is a light-weight huge .470 bore horn (made by Kanstul), while the Sandoval is a standard weight .463 bore (made by Holton/Conn-Selmer). I would expect the Zeus to be considerably more open. In truth (again, based on the specs), they are completely different horns.
A more direct competitor with the Sandoval would be a Schilke S22, especially if you're looking for an open blow. You might also try a Kanstul CHI 1070 "Big Band" (.470 bore).
Also, FWIW, I would expect both Schilke and Kanstul (two of the finest horn makers in the world) to be much more consistent compared to a Holton.
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textr
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Bill Blackwell wrote: | | JoeCool wrote: | | ... How do they compare to each other? ... I am contemplating a purchase of one or the other... |
The Zeus is a light-weight huge .470 bore horn (made by Kanstul), while the Sandoval is a standard weight .463 bore (made by Holton/Conn-Selmer). I would expect the Zeus to be considerably more open. In truth (again, based on the specs), they are completely different horns.
A more direct competitor with the Sandoval would be a Schilke S22, especially if you're looking for an open blow. You might also try a Kanstul CHI 1070 "Big Band" (.470 bore).
Also, FWIW, I would expect both Schilke and Kanstul (two of the finest horn makers in the world) to be much more consistent compared to a Holton. |
Who said anything about a Holton?
The Sandoval model is a Leblanc which is made at the Leblanc plant in
Kenosha, Wis., Holton trumpets are made at the Holton plant in Elkhorn Wis. Yes I know that Leblanc owns both companies but they are two seperate manufacturing facilities.
And BTW the Leblanc is a lightweight horn.
P.S. Have you ever played on many Holton trumpets? Try a Holton T101 or a Holton ST307 or ST308 MF models , they are really fine trumpets . |
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JoeCool
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for responding!
I think the Sandoval is no longer in production. I may be wrong. But it is definitely a lightweight horn. I had one. Shoulda never let it go. Loved that horn. I have played the Holton ST307. It was hard to tell how it played since the leadpipe was in need of a clean really bad. Ugh.
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JoeCool
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Location: Cedar Park, TX
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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| textr wrote: | Joe Cool,
I have played on both of those horns and my pick would be the Leblanc Sandoval, the Olympus is a .470 bore and it is a little unforgiving sometimes. The Leblanc is a .463 and it to my taste is just perfect , not too small, not too large. The Leblanc Sandoval models are really very good horns... if you get a good one . I have played a couple that I was not impressed with. I prefer the silver plated models.
There is one on ebay right now that looks to be in excellent shape. |
Yeah, I have my eye on that one. Thanks for your advice. I'm leaning that way right now. We've traded some barbs, textr, but I have always respected your opinions here on the TH.
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Mark Bradley
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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The Leblanc Sandoval is a very poorly made clone of the Schilke X3. I tried these two models side by side and the Leblanc is awful.
The Z. Olympus is a wannabe Wild Thing and closer to the the Kanstul COL.103. (the Kanstul 103 isn't a bad horn but in no way is it a Wild Thing)
I'd go with the original of either-- very different horns. |
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JoeCool
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Location: Cedar Park, TX
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark Bradley wrote: | The Leblanc Sandoval is a very poorly made clone of the Schilke X3. I tried these two models side by side and the Leblanc is awful.
The Z. Olympus is a wannabe Wild Thing and closer to the the Kanstul COL.103. (the Kanstul 103 isn't a bad horn but in no way is it a Wild Thing)
I'd go with the original of either-- very different horns. |
Well, Sandoval did put his name on it. Like I said. I had one and it was superb. Granted it came from Jason Harrelson's shop where he had stripped it to raw brass; aligned the valves and put a trim kit on it. I even when so far as to contact the guy I sold it to to see how it was going. He basically said you would have to pry it out of his dead fingers. Funny how that is when you find a good one. Kind of like a good woman, you know?
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textr
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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Well ,everyone has his opinion, and that's OK. But I have played on enough of the Leblancs to know that they are a killer lead horn. But I have played on a couple that I thought were duds, but some reason those were the lacquered models.
If had some money laying around I would bid on the one on ebay, but I really can't justify buying a new horn right now.
Joe , I agree, but a good woman is a lot harder to find than a good trumpet . |
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ltkije1966
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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Hey man, I see in the marketplace that a Zeus is for sale. And, it's in TX. Since it's such a small state, it's probably right around the corner. Contact the seller and see if it is near. Hopefully you can find out first hand.
Happy Hunting.
Scott
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kanemania
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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Joe, I'm glad to hear you miss that horn. Me, too.
(I'm the guy Joe got it from. Swapped it for a Kanstul French Besson Marvin Stamm. No slam on Joe; the Besson's a good horn and it seemed like a good idea at the time.)
That particular Sandoval was not a poorly made clone of anything, although it was never going to replace my Schilke. But still ...
Like the song says: Don't it always seem to go/that you don't know what you got 'til it's gone.
<<sigh>> |
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Mark Bradley
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| JoeCool wrote: |
Well, Sandoval did put his name on it. Like I said. I had one and it was superb. Granted it came from Jason Harrelson's shop where he had stripped it to raw brass; aligned the valves and put a trim kit on it. I even when so far as to contact the guy I sold it to to see how it was going. He basically said you would have to pry it out of his dead fingers. Funny how that is when you find a good one. Kind of like a good woman, you know? |
,
I have no reason to doubt that. I'm sure Arturo's Leblanc was a wee bit different than the stuff UMI was selling to the masses and the one you saw probably reflected what the horn would be like if put together properly. A shame because done right and not slapped together the Leblanc Sandoval is probably a very good trumpet. I had the same experience with the Leblanc Sandoval flugel a few years ago, right when they came out. A friend bought one and it sounded fantastic, among the nicest flugels I've heard with that copperr bell (but the caveat is that all flugels sound pretty darned nice when it comes right down to it-- sort of like a sad Polka, you just can't find one) but the valves of this brand new horn had small pin-hole holes in them-- you could see the light of day through them (!) and the build was such absolute garbage he sent it back. This was UMI at it's worst and for their "give a darn" attitude we can now thank how they paved the way for the cheapo Chinese horns-- they look pretty good next to some of the pap UMI put out. But the shame was you could tell if that Leblanc flugel was made with just the slightest degree of quality control you'd have yourself a very good instrument. Too bad. I bet it made Arturo sick when he saw what they did using his name-- no doubt not at all like he was led to believe the end result would be. |
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textr
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark Bradley wrote: | | JoeCool wrote: |
Well, Sandoval did put his name on it. Like I said. I had one and it was superb. Granted it came from Jason Harrelson's shop where he had stripped it to raw brass; aligned the valves and put a trim kit on it. I even when so far as to contact the guy I sold it to to see how it was going. He basically said you would have to pry it out of his dead fingers. Funny how that is when you find a good one. Kind of like a good woman, you know? |
,
I have no reason to doubt that. I'm sure Arturo's Leblanc was a wee bit different than the stuff UMI was selling to the masses and the one you saw probably reflected what the horn would be like if put together properly. A shame because done right and not slapped together the Leblanc Sandoval is probably a very good trumpet. I had the same experience with the Leblanc Sandoval flugel a few years ago, right when they came out. A friend bought one and it sounded fantastic, among the nicest flugels I've heard with that copperr bell (but the caveat is that all flugels sound pretty darned nice when it comes right down to it-- sort of like a sad Polka, you just can't find one) but the valves of this brand new horn had small pin-hole holes in them-- you could see the light of day through them (!) and the build was such absolute garbage he sent it back. This was UMI at it's worst and for their "give a darn" attitude we can now thank how they paved the way for the cheapo Chinese horns-- they look pretty good next to some of the pap UMI put out. But the shame was you could tell if that Leblanc flugel was made with just the slightest degree of quality control you'd have yourself a very good instrument. Too bad. I bet it made Arturo sick when he saw what they did using his name-- no doubt not at all like he was led to believe the end result would be. |
First of all UMI and Holton / Leblanc have absolutely nothing to do with each other , they never did , not before or after the Conn Selmer buy out of every other company. UMI is the conglomerate that bought out King , Artley, Benge, Roth violins and so on. Holton /Leblanc was never owned by UMI.
And I personally think all polkas sound sad , musically speaking that is. |
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Bill Blackwell
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| textr wrote: | | ...The Sandoval model is a Leblanc which is made at the Leblanc plant in Kenosha, Wis., Holton trumpets are made at the Holton plant in Elkhorn Wis. Yes I know that Leblanc owns both companies but they are two seperate manufacturing facilities. And BTW the Leblanc is a lightweight horn... |
I stand corrected on both counts.
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Kanstul Trumpet 1600-R - Silver
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Kanstul Flugelhorn 1025 - Silver
Kanstul Cornet 1530 - Copper
Kanstul Pocket 905-1 |
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Mark Bradley
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| textr wrote: | [q
First of all UMI and Holton / Leblanc have absolutely nothing to do with each other |
Oops, I stand erected, I mean corrected as well. CKB--Conn, King, Benge... no Leblanc or Holton in there. Guess I just have a guilt by association complex or something. |
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yodafan
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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The best horn ever made by Holton or Leblanc is the Holton MF ST307.
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Crazy Finn
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Mark Bradley wrote: | | The Leblanc Sandoval is a very poorly made clone of the Schilke X3. I tried these two models side by side and the Leblanc is awful. |
That was my experience too, when I tried out out a bunch or horn years ago. Well, it wasn't quite awful, but it was mediocre and fairly forgettable.
| JoeCool wrote: | | Like I said. I had one and it was superb. Granted it came from Jason Harrelson's shop where he had stripped it to raw brass; aligned the valves and put a trim kit on it. |
This might explain some of its superb-ness. The quality of the horn has to be in both the parts/material and the assembly (and the design, I guess). If Jason re-worked the latter, that could go a long way to explaining it's superb-ness. I'm sure a few that came out of the factory were good, too. Perhaps not all, though.
| JoeCool wrote: | | Funny how that is when you find a good one. Kind of like a good woman, you know? |
I know. That's why I've never sold a horn. Of course, I've bought very few as well. |
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shofarguy
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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Sandoval plays a Wild Thing. As I understand the story, he was willing to drop trumpet playing and go with just piano because he didn't like his sound. Now, he is loving his WT and is about to release a wonderful new album using it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUEu8JGn0dk
Brian
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Crazy Finn
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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Leblanc was bought by Conn-Selmer in 2004.
UMI which consisted of King and Conn (and maybe one other that I can't remember) was bought by Steinway in 2000. It merged with Selmer (which owned Bach of course) in 2003.
Leblanc also owned Holton and Martin.
So...Steinway owns the following trumpet brands:
- Vincent Bach
- Selmer - Paris
- King
- Conn
- Holton
- Martin
- Leblanc
- Benge (well, the name)
Crazy. |
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drvalenzuela2001
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:47 pm Post subject: Sandoval's sound |
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| Wow, I heard Sandoval Play one of his crazy licks from pedal to Double high C 5 times on 5 different horns from students in the audience. The horns ranged from Bundy to King to bach to yamaha to blessing.....he sounded great on all. His point was...it's not the horn, just practice and always be ready just in case you get called for a gig....I can't wait to get his new album, I've always been a fan. Check out some of his Irakere stuff, it's great. |
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