Ed Treutel Breathing/Posture Question

Trpt36

I have read/heard that Ed Treutal had a unique approach to teaching breathing/posture for trumpet players. Can anybody who studied with Treutel chime in and give any info on the subject?

I believe Jim Wilt mentioned this briefly in a previous post...could you chime in, Jim?

Thanks very much!

David Krauss · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:33 am Post subject:

It's Treutel and I can still remember the smell of old cigars imbedded in his sport coat......

DK

Derek Reaban · Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:20 am Post subject:

I think only William Vacchiano was a teacher at Juilliard for longer than Edward Treutel. Nearly 60 years. Wow!
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Derek Reaban
Tempe, Arizona
Tempe Symphonic Wind Ensemble / Symphony of the Southwest

Jo Ann Lamolino · New Member Joined: 22 Jul 2005 Posts: 8 Location: NJ

I studied with Ed Treutel for about the last 5 years of his life. At that time, he was into making you stand up against a wall with your back flat, head back so your neck would line up against the wall and pevic tilt up. The idea was to line up your spine against the wall so you were as straight as possible.

As far as breathing he was really into breath attacks. He had sheets of exercises that I used to use. He was big into visualization and promoting flexibility with your torso area; thinking of using your body like fireplace bellows or thinking your body was a tube of toothpaste getting squeezed. Those are 2 specifics I can remember. I practiced tons of lip slurs, Bordogni and Concone. He was also really into slurring pretty much everything before tonguing it.

I studied with him when I was in high school/early college. My guess is my experience studying with him would have been different than alot of the adults that I saw coming for lessons. So I would be interested in hearing from them if they are lurking around TH

Derek Reaban · Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:22 pm Post subject:

Jo Ann,

While I don’t know anything about Ed Treutel or his pedagogy, I feel like the people that I have had lessons with or attended their Masterclasses have been influenced by his pedagogy in a strong way. Your comments about posture, slurring everything before tonguing, breath attacks, and using Rochut / Concone line up with the what I have learned from David Krauss, Mark Inouye, Jens Lindemann, and Michael Sachs. And they were all at Juilliard during his tenure as a professor there.

Posture

ITG Conference 2004 – David Krauss

Derek Reaban · Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:42 pm Post subject:

TH Post on Edward Treutel
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Derek Reaban
Tempe, Arizona
Tempe Symphonic Wind Ensemble / Symphony of the Southwest

Jo Ann Lamolino · New Member Joined: 22 Jul 2005 Posts: 8 Location: NJ

Hi Derek,

Thank you for the links to other posts. The biggest things that I took away from my time studying with Ed Treutel, were exactly what David Krauss mentions, walking away with a "solid foundation" and he was an "extremely patient" man. But it also looks like David studied with him at perhaps a similar point in trumpet developement as myself. I guess I have frequently wondered if I took a lesson with him as an adult, being at a much different point with my trumpet playing, what would that be like? I have also wondered, since he taught for about 50 years, how did his teaching differ; for example, did he approach a 16 year old with similar material in 1956 similarly to a 16 year old in 1995? Things like that, how he changed as a person and a trumpet teacher/player. Afterall a middle aged man is much different than a man in the autumn of life.

MrClean · Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:04 pm Post subject:

I think Jo Ann summed it up very well - at least what I got out of my time with Mr. T. A lot of work on getting everything lined up along your spine and using your body as a bellows. Staying down, blowing through everything, getting the "lippiness" out of slurs, etc. He also passed out illustrations to try to hone concentration skills. Once I moved back to Houston, it gave me some time to try to assimilate what he was trying to get me to do. I don't know if I'm doing what he was saying, but I will say that I changed the way I play, and it is much more reliable than before.

J

MrV · Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:04 pm Post subject:

bookmarked for further reading

Derek Reaban · Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 12:43 pm Post subject:

Jo Ann,

Thanks very much for your initial post. When I read it my mind flooded with all of the information that I have learned in lessons and masterclasses. It was fun to go back and read my old posts and make the tie-in to Edward Treutel. I figured the links to these posts would give you some additional reading to see the common pedagogy comments for yourself.

MrClean,

David Krauss · Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 1:19 pm Post subject:

To be honest- when I was taking lessons with Mr. Treutel, I wished I was studying with anyone else. We didn't do excerpts (except for Shostakovich piano cto) and the only solo rep we did was by Morton Gould. It was tough to hear everyone else working on cool stuff at a rapid pace. Lessons were repetitious and often mundane focusing solely on posture and embrochure development. You try pressing your spine against a wall, aligning your head directly on top of your spine, having someone jab their thumb into your chin pressing your jaw back while you play.... lessons with him were not at all fun. BUT! I was a cocky juilliard kid. What did I know? Nothing. Nothing at all. In retrospect, I shutter to think where I would be if I had been focusing on learning the Tomasi at age 15 instead. (Most likely, I'd have a "real" job)
Like Mr. Vacchiano, Treutel never played in my lessons. They were both old-school. Learning mezzo soprano clef was also a big drag with Vach. I hated it. But- basic transposing skills have saved my ass over the years and so has basic posture and embrochure awareness. I am really fortunate to have studied with both of them.

DK

darinkelly · Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:05 pm Post subject:

Like Dave, I was young and stupid when I studied with Mr. Treutel up in Leonia-- now I am just no longer young! Yep-- I, too, just wanted to play excerpts and fast and loud stuff and whatnot, and wondered why this old geezer with the funny way of singing ("HHRREEUUU!") and talking about pelvic tilt never played a note, nor really cared much about how fast or loud I could play. I forgot about him and his teaching for about twenty years.

But today, I find that I draw on what I learned from Mr. Treutel perhaps more than anything else. The things he was trying to teach that 16-year-old jackass-- breathing, posture, economy of approach, balance-- went completely over my head until I was old enough to get my head out of my arse and actually put some thought into what I was doing. Today, one of the first things I do with a new student is open his Arban book and write on the title page: "LESS MOVEMENT=MORE SECURITY", just like he had in mine. The things I learned from him-- though I didn't think I had-- have in the past six or seven years completely changed my approach to playing in the best way possible.

Thank you for starting this thread; It's a pity more people don't know about Ed Treutel.

DK (Philly version)

Derek Reaban · Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:06 pm Post subject:

Ollie Crepe! Two DKs in a row. Hey Now! This stuff must really work.
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Derek Reaban
Tempe, Arizona
Tempe Symphonic Wind Ensemble / Symphony of the Southwest

Jo Ann Lamolino · New Member Joined: 22 Jul 2005 Posts: 8 Location: NJ

Of course Mr. Clean got the same stuff out of his time with Mr. Treutel. We had back to back lessons on a thursday for a while. I was always excited to see the "fella from the philharmonic" as ET used to refer to Jim