Super Chops Book

marsalis626 · Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:27 am Post subject: Super Chops Book

With Phone Lessons and Super Chops book could you learn Callets method?

nini · Posted: Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:06 pm Post subject:

From my own experience:

You can get a fearly decent insight in the method through the various books , the DVD and phone lessons; but - I found out for myself - that nothing can replace real teaching: even if it is just to make sure that one didn't misunderstand the written instructions

Nini

drboogenbroom · Posted: Fri Oct 30, 2009 5:52 am Post subject:

Bob H · Regular Member Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 25

goldenhornplayer · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:57 am Post subject: Re: Super Chops Book

markchuvala · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:04 am Post subject:

Books are helpful, DVDs are helpful. Butt it fascinates me beyond words how even over the phone, Jerry knows what's going on w/ my chops, what I am doing, and how to make corrections.

"Don't kick out your jaw" Just how in the hell does Jerry know that my jaw was protruding over the phone???

"You're not tucking your bottom lip enough. You're puckering" Correct again....

"You're tongue is too thin and pointed, widen it more"

It's possible that Jerry may be a jedi...
M

hien peter · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:47 am Post subject: a

my experience with the trumpet secrets:

takes one year to realize a profit,
probably this is the reason why so much trumpet players are disencouraged or recline this method

first:
read every sentence in the book five times
think about every instruction very often, every day again
look at the old curtains and angels with trumpets,
and you see their embouchure

and:
read also the book of Smiley (BE)
this is probably the first step
(pedals are probably not the right way to begin,
start with an middle setpoint like E2 / G2 and go down)

and work 50% only with the mouthpiece in pp

Peter
_________________
playing trumpet is a philosophy

Strad H37 & 1c-Turbobore
martin committee 1946
Conn V1 FH & DW2FL

goldenhornplayer · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:09 am Post subject: Re: a

hien peter · Posted: Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:09 am Post subject: a

hallo Ken,

there is no advice in terms of embochure, millions of ways to do it.
There is also no scientific prove of any way.
I gave no advice, I just told my opinion and my way to do it.

For me :

J. Callet is right (some people disagree with him completely)
I think th best way to do TCE is to first work with BE (my exprience)
pedals are very controverse (you can read a lot about)
some people think to work first with a secure upper register (anderson)
then I think the way Stamp teaches pedals could be the best
a lot of people go worse with buzzing
a lot of people grow better with MP buzzing

Just my experience and my opinion, no advice Ken.
My personal aim is a clear, full and beautiful tone.

Peter
_________________
playing trumpet is a philosophy

Strad H37 & 1c-Turbobore
martin committee 1946
Conn V1 FH & DW2FL

goldenhornplayer · Posted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:20 am Post subject:

Hein Peter--My point was that your opinions are in direct opposition to Jerome Callets stated opinions. It seemed necessary to point that out in case someone else thought we agreed with you. If your approach worked for you, all well and good. It's just not in line with the advice that Jerome offers. --Ken B.
_________________
GHP BRASS...The right stuff every trumpeter needs
Please visit our website: www.ghpbrass.com

hien peter · Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:33 am Post subject: a

you are right Ken,

I think Callet forgot some important things in his wonderful books

Probably this is the reason why so much trumpet players disgust his method.
Same with Smiley. Smiley puts too much weight on pedals in the beginning, this can be detrimental. Also he gives too less respect to the lower lip.

All this method guys disregard too much what is also important.

Peter
_________________
playing trumpet is a philosophy

Strad H37 & 1c-Turbobore
martin committee 1946
Conn V1 FH & DW2FL

Air Molecules Mover · Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:01 am Post subject:

Not to completely hijack this thread (as you see that my post will wind up relating to the OP) I just want to chime in on this BE/MSC thing.

I know for a fact that I was able to wrap my mind around the concepts presented by M Callet and enventually implement them (and believe me the implementation is still very much work in progress

) thanks to M Smiley. Keep in mind that the whole thing about the BE approach is that is is not an embouchure but a walk through different types of exercises whose aim is to unlock your current one in order to get to a more efficient one. At first glance, roll in/out might not be kosher in JC book, but it definitely helps in the process of being flexible and adaptable. And that is what is IMHO absolutely necessary in order to have some success with MSC.

So back with the OP: yes you can learn MSC with phone lessons and the DVD (this is basically how I am doing it) but don't hesitate to educate yourself on how to get the results with anything makes sense to you.

BTW: The "tongue on lips" described in BE is probably what allowed me to transition to a full tongue forward position a la MSC.

Best

goldenhornplayer · Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:39 am Post subject:

AMM--Here's the problem...BE is nothing more than a series of exercises that lead to an embouchure, not a specific embouchure but an embouchure nevertheless. The odds of that leading to an embouchure compatible with, or even similar to, MSC are remote. If you got lucky and it worked for you, then congrats. I seriously doubt it would lead to anything good for most other serious MSC students. The thing to realize here is that, unlike BE, MSC IS a specific embouchure and not just a series of exercises. --Ken B.
_________________
GHP BRASS...The right stuff every trumpeter needs
Please visit our website: www.ghpbrass.com

Air Molecules Mover · Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:30 am Post subject:

Golden Horn:
From what you are saying I would guess that you haven't spent any time practicing BE (and again it is just a guess, I could be completely off)
I have for about 6-8 months.
What BE provides you is just a better ability to form any embouchure you want (and one that works too

), and it gives you definitely more control on the different elements of the embouchure. I think you are wrong when you say that that it is just luck that one would wind up with an embouchure that is "compatible with MSC" In my experience BE allows more freedom to adopt a working embouchure.

I just happen to stumble on SC a bit later on in my development, and I just told myself that this is what is going to work for me. But without the tools of BE I guess the initial climb would have been much steeper (I don't think there is a disagreement here: MSC could be very steep to climb at first)
They can work together if you are a bit smart and open minded...

hien peter · Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:38 am Post subject: a

dear air molecule man,

I am completely with you

Peter
_________________
playing trumpet is a philosophy

Strad H37 & 1c-Turbobore
martin committee 1946
Conn V1 FH & DW2FL

goldenhornplayer · Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:29 pm Post subject:

AMM--

Actually, I do speak from experience but, of course, it is my own experience. Before finding Jerome, I did purchase and work with the BE book and talked to Jeff several times about it. I have nothing at all against Jeff and his very well presented book but I stand by my position that it does not jive with MSC.

If you really want to know the truth about it, I would encourage you to give Jerome a call and see what he has to say about mixing the two. I sure would like to be on the line when you ask him that question. As I said earlier, I'm glad you feel it worked for you. At this point, we would be assuming an awful lot that you are actually playing the MSC way now as you seem to think you are. Obviously, I don't know whether you are or not. The fact that you feel BE and MSC are compatible makes me question it. --Ken B.
_________________
GHP BRASS...The right stuff every trumpeter needs
Please visit our website: www.ghpbrass.com

Air Molecules Mover · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:14 am Post subject:

goldenhornplayer · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:16 am Post subject:

AMM--

Whatever you are doing, it sounds like it's working for you. The question might be, would you have gotten there more easily doing only those things that Jerome recommends? I think yes and you think no and we probably should leave it at that.

This goes along the same line of thinking about the use of certain exercises. For example, we could start a thread about using the pencil exercise or perhaps, the Warburton P.E.T.E. According to Jerome, both of these are very counterproductive for MSC. His reasoning is that these exercises cause you to exercise the wrong things like squeezing the lips together, for example. And that's my issue with BE. Why practice things that are wrong for MSC, like roll-ins and lip clamps, in order to learn MSC. That logic escapes me totally. At any rate, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it. --Ken B.
_________________
GHP BRASS...The right stuff every trumpeter needs
Please visit our website: www.ghpbrass.com

hien peter · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:53 am Post subject: a

He said: "Am I subconsciously micro adjusting the degree to which my top lip "rolls in" on the top of my forward tongue or the degree to which my lips press back on the tongue ?"

This is the answer: the top lip rolls in on the top of my forward tongue

And here is the overlap of TCE & BE. Both books I read about 20y times.
Highly used and analyzed and tried and diskussed and worked with good teachers.

You can practice TCE, but it doesn´t usually work or it works very bad - beside you have certain preliminaries already given - by nature, by luck, by "long-and-good-trumpet-playing".

For me as a beginner (4 years) TCE doesn´t work at all, like a complete nonsense method. After BE - it worked. This both techniques are the sides of the same coin.

Peter
_________________
playing trumpet is a philosophy

Strad H37 & 1c-Turbobore
martin committee 1946
Conn V1 FH & DW2FL

lubonv · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:14 am Post subject:

Well, actually when licking maracuja ice cream off the top lip you roll the top lip in a bit. Yum!!!

_________________
"For if the trumpet has an uncertain sound who will prepare himself for the battle?" Paul, Ch.

Custom Made Slide Trumpet
SC2

Myspace