Question About Miles Davis

trjeam · Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2001 5:30 pm Post subject:

Hi everyone . I have a question about Miles Davis . I have heard allot of talk about him
and about how he was so great . Well my question to you all is what made him so great ? Was it that he had a awesome range ? Or a awesome tone ? Or was it that he was playing a new kind of music that made him so popular ? And the same goes for Louis Armstrong . Was it there music or there trumpet skills that made them so popular ? At there time were they considered among the best ? By best I mean best at playing trumpet . Or was it just there music ?

ChopsMcgraw · Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:08 pm Post subject:

I'm certainly no expert, so forgive any errors- Louis was one of the first to bring "jazz" into mainstream culture, and was an incredible player and showman. He was one of the only jazz trumpeters the ordinary person heard about. Miles is a little different, he was all about the music, and didn't give a damn what anyone thought. Many only know the sound of Mile's by his later recordings, (bitches Brew, Birth of the Cool, Kind of Blue), and so they complain about his sound and "sloppiness". I recently heard a recording of a young Miles playing a bop solo, and he was cleaner than Clifford! Miles was always pushing to find his own sound and style, and that lead him to push the boundaries of music, always being on the forefront and being a musical innovator is what gave Miles his reputation. I could be way wrong in some opinions, but thats my take on it-

rch-tech · Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2001 10:57 am Post subject:

As far as Miles go, he was kinda the bad boy later in his years too.
All the drugs, rumors of pimping (seriously, I read that but can't remember where). And in college we studied a bit of him in our Jazz history class. He had been known to come out on stage and just play one note, then leave, or play with his back to the audience. Personally I love his tunes, cool and laid back, great to listen to at the end of a hard day.
Isn't he know as "the father of cool" or something like that?
As far as Louis...he was just awesome, if you listen to him play, he doesn't sound so hot compared to some players, BUT he was doing things during his time, that nobody else was doing. He truly loved performing...and was a true showman....
Long live Satchmo....

Larry Smithee · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 4399

Hello,
Although I am a big fan of Miles, I will leave him for others to discuss, but simply thought I might add a few short highlights regarding Louis, the "father of jazz".
This title alone should suggest his importance in terms of history. Many of the things we take for granted when hearing jazz music were original to Louis, such as:
1. the idea of playing a improvised jazz solo while being backed up by a rhythm section or band.
2. many trumpet techniques--shakes, growls, glissando, etc.
3. the jazz vocalists owes Louis much--scat singing, for example.
4. extending the trumpet range to high C and above.
5. inspiring jazz trumpet players to become virtuosos.
6. extending the range (style) of jazz music and influencing all jazz musicians around the world.
7. he even influenced other instrumentalists, such as piano players, saxophonists, trombonists, and on, and on.
8. even if you had not ever heard Louis and you attempted to play jazz, his enfluence would be present because other players you emulate would have been enfluenced by Louis.
9. he was the ultimate showman and this aspect was also an influence on all musicians in jazz.
10. he had the astounding ability to take the most mundane, dumb tune and turn it into a work of art. Not an easy thing to do.
11. the very concept of "swing" was very original to Louis, but would became almoust routine among all jazz players later.
12. he could fit into context with almost any musician/singer--he recorded with Duke Ellington, Ella, all the great pop singers of the day.
By the way, I recommend that you go out and buy my personal favorite Louis recording entitled "Ambasordor Sach". It features incredible playing by Louis and the band. The guys were ON during these live gigs in Europe. Unbelievable stuff. It speaks for itself.
Larry Smithee

dales · Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2001 6:35 pm Post subject:

Hilander · Regular Member Joined: 23 Dec 2001 Posts: 12

Miles wasn't a good trumpet player but he was a great musician...he made an art of his shortcomings....he was so restrained because he couldn't play better. He made great music and I like his style...

Yoinks · Veteran Member Joined: 10 Nov 2001 Posts: 258

Yes, basically all modern music in the way it is arranged with modern notation (melody/harmony arranged over chord prog.) owes its existence in its current form to Louis. Nuff said on that. Trumpets started it all. (There, that is a mass ego trip we can all take.)

Mile is so great, not because of his trumpet ability, but his musical ability. He was decent enough, but what he did with that was what made him so great. He was always on the leading edge of the music industry. He was a great beboper training under Diz after dropping out of Juliard. He basically was one of the original group that got together and "invented"(so to speak) cool jazz, with the Birth of the Cool album. Then after a five year hiatus (drugs) he came back and basically single handedly created Modal Jazz, with the Kind of Blue album (as far as I know, still the most prolific jazz seller ever.) Then, as the changes came, fusion, acid jazz, free jazz, jazz rock, modern jazz, third stream(Sketcheds of Spain), he was always on the leading edge, if not THE leader in the musical developement of these styles. I have seen him named to the top 100 Rock, Jazz, Funk, and Pop lists of the 20th century by a handful of different publications. He was an inspiration to a whole handful of trumpet players. Not to mention, I recently went to a lecture at big music convention, at which a speaker accredited the proliferation of different mute usage in modern classical and jazz music to Miles on the Kind of Blue album, as it was one of the first time a trumpet player in any genre effectively played for extended periods in mutes.

Ronnie · Regular Member Joined: 08 Nov 2001 Posts: 87

Hey Guys,

I keep hearing critics and musicians say that miles wasn't the greatest technician and that kind of alarms me. They say that his overall musicality was great, but his chops were not.

I've been listening to alot of the old miles stuff wir bird, dizzy, sonny. All of the stuff prior to the Birth of Cool.

He seems to be playing pretty well. I mean, he wasn't playing like Fats, but he was playing some serious horn - technique and all.

Wasn't Miles good enough to get into Julliard? I mean, like most of you, he was a classically trained musician and that takes some work.

I remember hearing this interview with miles where he's talking about arbans and playing Hayden and Mummel (sp). He sounds really good too.

Just a thought,

Ronnie

brenter · Veteran Member Joined: 14 Nov 2001 Posts: 135

For anyone interested in Miles, I would recommend reading his autobiography. It gives great insights into his music, the musicians that he played with, and the kind of person he was.

mistrad37 · Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2002 11:56 am Post subject:

kenny dorham is an animal · Veteran Member Joined: 15 Jan 2002 Posts: 133

ok, see with Miles you just gotta dig it.. Theres really no explaning what is so great about it, its just great, i mean i think i own 27 miles albums. And yes one great thing about him was that he really was constantly bringing jazz to a new level and always doin his own thing. But you just have to like it, there not a whole lot of explaning about how to describe why miles was so great. Its a very common question. Miles also kept it real simple, most of the time. For good early miles pick up Blue Haze, its good. Sorry not to big on pops, cant really talk about him.
_________________
Im out for dead presidents to represent me-Nas

DRES

pfrank · Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2002 11:38 am Post subject:

Anyone who thinks that Miles had "technical issues" should listen to the Columbia record Jazz at the Plaza, the last cut, Straight, No Chaser. Miles's playing is so fine and masterful, it's scairy.
My favorite album is "Miles Smiles." Hearing this was actually my first exposure to "modern jazz" after hearing my father's dixyland records. I was hooked thereafter. Saw him twice in the early 70's (the band with Pete Cosey on guitar). By then, Miles was using concepts found in African and Indian music as well as 20th century classical music and fine art.
He forshadowed so much of what is standard today. Listed to The Bestie Boys or Snoop Dog or anything from the Lazwell catelog, and you are hearing concepts that came from Miles. (I don't include so-called "fusion" music as Miles only spoke if he had something to say...excepting his last years, which I don't think were so good)
On the technical side, I would say that Miles was the forrunner of the dark trumpet tone that many of us persue today... a "fusion" of classical technique with improvisational music.
Miles was a master of the power of perception. He said that he could tell if a player was good just by seeing how they held their instrument...I wouldn't argue.
Lastly, Miles was a sensitive person, psychologicaly unprepared for the stresses found in American society in the 1st half of the 20th century. But what Courage, that he could expose his sensitivity with such a trumpet voice. With what he taught us, I forgive his peccadillos...
BTW, Miles turned his back to the audience so that he could Watch The Drummer, because he loved drummers! That was shocking in his day! Today, I feel free to do that too. Nobody minds. Thanks, Miles.