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Christian1483
Regular Member
Joined: 04 Sep 2023
Posts: 16
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 Posted: Fri May 17, 2024 6:42 pm Post subject: Mouthpieces with rims similar to bach |
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So today I learned that I need to get a smaller mouthpiece, so I'm now in the market for a new one. I'm currently on a 3c with a gold plated rim and the rim feels amazing, but it's too big. I have tried Yamaha, Shires, and schilke mouthpieces, but the bach stills feels the best. Im looking for something with a bit of a wider, rounder rim because my skin is extremely sensitive so I want something pretty comfortable to play on, but something a little bit rounded than a Bach rim would be good. Anyone know any manufacturers?
Last edited by Christian1483 on Sat May 18, 2024 9:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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CaptPat
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Joined: 26 Oct 2023
Posts: 70
Location: Eastern NC
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| Posted: Sat May 18, 2024 4:12 am Post subject: |
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I have a couple Bob Reeves MP's that feel pretty close to my Bach rims. They answer the phone and may be able to offer advice on where to go next.
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 180S37
Getzen Custom Series 3895
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I play trumpet because I like it, not because I'm good at it. |
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JWG
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Joined: 27 Jul 2011
Posts: 260
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| Posted: Sat May 18, 2024 7:33 am Post subject: |
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Forgive me for asking . . . but if the rim "feels amazing" why not stay with it?!
A great percentage of people on TrumpetHerald would love to find a rim that "feels amazing." So, consider yourself fortunate.
Why do you believe that you need a smaller rim?
If the Bach 3 "feels amazing" to you, then maybe your premise that you need a smaller rim stands in error.
I have learned to never take anyone's advice on rim diameter/shape, because only you know what feels right against your lips and teeth. Others can theorize, but only you know.
Take advice on alpha angles, cup depth/shape, throat size, backbore shape, and how the combinations of these variables affect playing, because those variables affect us in nearly the same way.
You can likely find either a custom 3 rim mouthpiece or use a modular rim/cup/backbore mouthpiece system to make a 3 rim perform optimally for you in any situation.
_________________
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb and C with 1.5 TCC, XT, C, C-O, O, & L mouthpieces
Bach 183S (undersprung valves & straight taper pipe) with 1.5 Flip Oakes XF |
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Christian1483
Regular Member
Joined: 04 Sep 2023
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Sat May 18, 2024 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| JWG wrote: | Forgive me for asking . . . but if the rim "feels amazing" why not stay with it?!
A great percentage of people on TrumpetHerald would love to find a rim that "feels amazing." So, consider yourself fortunate.
Why do you believe that you need a smaller rim?
If the Bach 3 "feels amazing" to you, then maybe your premise that you need a smaller rim stands in error.
I have learned to never take anyone's advice on rim diameter/shape, because only you know what feels right against your lips and teeth. Others can theorize, but only you know.
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I have been talking to someone on here and he has analyzed my playing and has told me that it appears that I may be using a too large of a mouthpiece. He also told me that I'm opening up my embouchure too much, so when I tried not opening it as much it was much harder to use the 3c than my other 7c sized mouthpieces. I also just wanted to try out some other manufacturers and see how I like them compared to my 3c. So what I'm thinking is that I'm going to try stuff around a 5c diameter and go from there. |
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Christian1483
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Joined: 04 Sep 2023
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Sat May 18, 2024 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| CaptPat wrote: | | I have a couple Bob Reeves MP's that feel pretty close to my Bach rims. They answer the phone and may be able to offer advice on where to go next. |
Alright I'll have to check them out, thank you. |
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Jacko1235
Regular Member
Joined: 18 Nov 2017
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Sat May 18, 2024 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| A Bach 6C's rim is like a smaller Bach 3C but the cup is deeper. The other option is getting a custom order from a maker e.g. Mark Curry and getting him to reduce the size of a Bach 3C to a Bach 5C size. |
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stuartissimo
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2021
Posts: 1035
Location: Europe
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| Posted: Sat May 18, 2024 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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Breslmair offers a lot of rim options, some of which they state are based on or similar to various Bach rim profiles iirc.
_________________
1975 Olds Recording trumpet
1997 Getzen 700SP trumpet
1955 Olds Super cornet
1939 Buescher 280 flugelhorn
AR Resonance mpc |
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Halflip
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Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1990
Location: WI
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| Posted: Sat May 18, 2024 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Jacko1235 wrote: | | The other option is getting a custom order from a maker e.g. Mark Curry and getting him to reduce the size of a Bach 3C to a Bach 5C size. |
Even better, Jim New could digitally scan your particular 3C with the rim that feels "amazing" and then make a mouthpiece with the exact same rim but a smaller diameter cup:
https://james-r-new.com/
He has Bach 3C scans from different eras on file already, but you couldn't be sure that any of those would match your rim exactly given Bach manufacturing inconsistencies prior to the "big letter" era (when Bach adopted CNC milling technology).
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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Jacko1235
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Joined: 18 Nov 2017
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Sat May 18, 2024 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Out of curiousity, what's the process like for ordering a custom mouthpiece from Jim? I can't seem to find much information about it e.g. can you mix and match rims and cups, blanks, pricing, etc. |
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Halflip
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
Posts: 1990
Location: WI
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| Posted: Sun May 19, 2024 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| Jacko1235 wrote: | | Out of curiousity, what's the process like for ordering a custom mouthpiece from Jim? I can't seem to find much information about it e.g. can you mix and match rims and cups, blanks, pricing, etc. |
If you scroll down a few screens on his website's home page, there is this verbiage:
Custom mouthpiece on request. If you can define it we can make it. We have digital scanning in-house available. We can combine your favorite rim with a variety of cups and we can design special outside shapes. All custom work is done in-house and designed for your needs.
Below that, under "Products", there are links for Bach, BNY, BMV, and other classic mouthpiece reproduction tops (rim + cup). Basically, Jim has digital scans made from particular examples of all those classic mouthpieces, and can also scan a particular mouthpiece you send him. He can then mix and match scan components (rims, cups, and backbores) as well as adjust them in terms of size and positioning. The resultant custom file can be used to program a CNC machine to mill the desired mouthpiece, or alter an existing mouthpiece (modify a rim contour, for example).
For more detailed information and pricing, it would be best to reach out to him using the form on his contact page.
_________________
"He that plays the King shall be welcome . . . " (Hamlet Act II, Scene 2, Line 1416)
"He had no concept of the instrument. He was blowing into it." -- Virgil Starkwell's cello teacher in "Take the Money and Run" |
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jadickson
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Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 1298
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Sun May 19, 2024 3:49 am Post subject: |
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How old is your Bach 3C ? The new ones feel smaller. You might want to try one.
They significantly changed their mouthpiece production methods. I have been able to try a bunch of 7C's, 3C's, and 1.5C's... they are more consistent than they used to be, and they all feel smaller than the older ones. You can tell it is a newer version if there are no "teeth marks" on the edge of the shank.
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Justin Dickson
Middle school band director. Still learning.
www.BandmateTuner.com |
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jadickson
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Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 1298
Location: Raleigh, NC
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| Posted: Sun May 19, 2024 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| jadickson wrote: | How old is your Bach 3C ? The new ones feel smaller. You might want to try one.
They significantly changed their mouthpiece production methods about two years ago. I have been able to try a bunch of 7C's, 3C's, and 1.5C's... they are more consistent than they used to be, and they all feel smaller than the older ones.
You can tell it is a newer version if there are no "teeth marks" on the edge of the shank, and the inside of the cup is not polished. |
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Justin Dickson
Middle school band director. Still learning.
www.BandmateTuner.com |
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TrumpetMD
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 2431
Location: Maryland
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| Posted: Sun May 19, 2024 4:57 am Post subject: |
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| Jacko1235 wrote: | | A Bach 6C's rim is like a smaller Bach 3C but the cup is deeper. The other option is getting a custom order from a maker e.g. Mark Curry and getting him to reduce the size of a Bach 3C to a Bach 5C size. |
I agree. If you want a rim like the 3C, but a smaller diameter, you have 2 choices with Bach.
The Bach 6C rim feels very much like the 3C, with a smaller diameter but with a deeper cup.
The Bach 10.5C is very similar to the 3C, with a smaller diameter and a similarly shallow cup.
Mike
_________________
Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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mograph
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Richard III
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Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2671
Location: Anacortes, WA
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| Posted: Sun May 19, 2024 6:47 am Post subject: |
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I can love many different styles and sizes of mouthpieces. All of this talk about retaining something from your old mouthpiece and transferring it to your new one seems like a lot of work.
Try some other mouthpieces. The angle your lips strike a mouthpiece and the size of the mouthpiece is part of the equation. The same rim in a different size will not feel the same. I would suggest stop trying to duplicate the rim. Really. Just try smaller diameter mouthpieces. You may find yourself in love again and be surprised by the difference.
I have a box of mouthpieces and last night I went on a safari with one of my horns in tow. I didn't have to go to a store. I just tried a bunch of mouthpieces in the box with that horn. I also was measuring how far each mouthpiece inserted. Sometimes the best mouthpiece is the one that inserts the correct amount and sounds the best and who cares what diameter it is.
There are so many variables. And yes, I found the mouthpiece that works best for that horn. Does it have the rim I would normally play? No. Is it smaller than what I would usually play? Yes. Could I make a living playing that combination? Yes.
Open your mind.
_________________
Richard
Today's Trumpet: 1937 Cleveland Toreador
Today's Cornet: 1947 Cleveland Clevelander
Today's Mouthpieces: Cleveland T and C
I missed my Cleveland horns. Is it time to sell the Conns? |
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