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Rhondo
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Joined: 22 Oct 2021
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 Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 1:07 pm Post subject: Oiling Valves through opened slides |
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Hi Everyone,
I’ve heard from 2 people suggesting a good way to oil valves is through opened valve slides. 3rd valve can be oiled through the 2nd valve while holding the 2nd valve down.
I used this method for a few weeks, then heard from Monster Oil the valves should be pulled to apply oil to them- the traditional method.
Since oiling through the opened slide ports seemed to work fine, I’m thinking I may alternate that method with pulling the pistons method.
Kind of not expecting a consensus on this, since there doesn’t seem to be one on the general topic…. but does anyone here oil from the open slides regularly, or have a strong opinion about its effectiveness? |
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
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Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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There's often a lot of 'goop' in the slide tubes (including grease) that could get washed onto the piston.
To get the clean oil onto the pistons, it's best to unscrew the top cap and raise the valve enough to expose the piston itself, then put the oil directly on the piston surface. And doing it that way doesn't have the risk of dropping a fully removed slide tube - e.g. 1 hand to hold the slide, 1 hand to hold the oil, 1 hand to hold the trumpet ?? how special are you?
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Rhondo
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Joined: 22 Oct 2021
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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| JayKosta wrote: | There's often a lot of 'goop' in the slide tubes (including grease) that could get washed onto the piston.
To get the clean oil onto the pistons, it's best to unscrew the top cap and raise the valve enough to expose the piston itself, then put the oil directly on the piston surface. And doing it that way doesn't have the risk of dropping a fully removed slide tube - e.g. 1 hand to hold the slide, 1 hand to hold the oil, 1 hand to hold the trumpet ?? how special are you? |
Drops of oil can be placed through the opening without it touching any slide grease. The slide is set down on a clean smooth surface, so I’m only holding the horn and container of valve oil.
Actually one person who suggested this was the dealer who sold the horn to me after I mentioned to them the 1st valve was occasionally sticking. It still does at times, but oddly seemingly less often when I use that method. |
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Dayton
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Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Kind of not expecting a consensus on this, since there doesn’t seem to be one on the general topic…. but does anyone here oil from the open slides regularly, or have a strong opinion about its effectiveness? |
Out of curiosity, have you removed the valves after oiling them through the slides to see if they are thoroughly covered in oil?
If the valves are thoroughly covered when you apply oil via the slides, and you aren't having any problems with the valves sticking, then great, you've found your preferred method.
Best wishes. |
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Rhondo
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Dayton wrote: | | Quote: | | Kind of not expecting a consensus on this, since there doesn’t seem to be one on the general topic…. but does anyone here oil from the open slides regularly, or have a strong opinion about its effectiveness? |
Out of curiosity, have you removed the valves after oiling them through the slides to see if they are thoroughly covered in oil?
If the valves are thoroughly covered when you apply oil via the slides, and you aren't having any problems with the valves sticking, then great, you've found your preferred method.
Best wishes. |
I should have thought of that… Makes sense, thanks. |
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
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Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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Regardless of all the "proper" ways you'll be given, I have, since the 50s, just squirted oil into the leadpipe and blown it through the entire horn, wiggling the fingers as I blow.
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Liberty Lips
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Joined: 12 Dec 2003
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Pulling out the slides to oil the valves is the only way to oil rotary valves. |
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etc-etc
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Rhondo wrote: | | JayKosta wrote: | There's often a lot of 'goop' in the slide tubes (including grease) that could get washed onto the piston.
To get the clean oil onto the pistons, it's best to unscrew the top cap and raise the valve enough to expose the piston itself, then put the oil directly on the piston surface. And doing it that way doesn't have the risk of dropping a fully removed slide tube - e.g. 1 hand to hold the slide, 1 hand to hold the oil, 1 hand to hold the trumpet ?? how special are you? |
Drops of oil can be placed through the opening without it touching any slide grease. The slide is set down on a clean smooth surface, so I’m only holding the horn and container of valve oil.
Actually one person who suggested this was the dealer who sold the horn to me after I mentioned to them the 1st valve was occasionally sticking. It still does at times, but oddly seemingly less often when I use that method. |
That is to be expected when the valve is slightly loose in the casing from wear - mixing of oil and slide grease creates a heavier oil. |
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Rhondo
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Joined: 22 Oct 2021
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| etc-etc wrote: | | Rhondo wrote: | | JayKosta wrote: | There's often a lot of 'goop' in the slide tubes (including grease) that could get washed onto the piston.
To get the clean oil onto the pistons, it's best to unscrew the top cap and raise the valve enough to expose the piston itself, then put the oil directly on the piston surface. And doing it that way doesn't have the risk of dropping a fully removed slide tube - e.g. 1 hand to hold the slide, 1 hand to hold the oil, 1 hand to hold the trumpet ?? how special are you? |
Drops of oil can be placed through the opening without it touching any slide grease. The slide is set down on a clean smooth surface, so I’m only holding the horn and container of valve oil.
Actually one person who suggested this was the dealer who sold the horn to me after I mentioned to them the 1st valve was occasionally sticking. It still does at times, but oddly seemingly less often when I use that method. |
That is to be expected when the valve is slightly loose in the casing from wear - mixing of oil and slide grease creates a heavier oil. |
Could be, not sure. It’s a 2nd hand 7 year old Strad and I’ve been under the impression the valve is too tight. Charlie Melk indicated it may not have been fitted well at production, but since he hasn’t inspected the valve, I don’t know. |
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trickg
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Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| kehaulani wrote: | | Regardless of all the "proper" ways you'll be given, I have, since the 50s, just squirted oil into the leadpipe and blown it through the entire horn, wiggling the fingers as I blow. |
Bingo! And this is a perfectly viable way to oil valves, as is oiling them through slides, especially if you’re in a hurry and it’s more convenient to do it that way rather than to pull the valves and oil them that way.
It never ceases to amaze me at how armchair experts want to over analyze everything.
For me it’s pretty simple: are the valves working better than they were after adding oil, regardless of how I choose to do it?
It really doesn’t need to be analyzed past that.
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stuartissimo
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| trickg wrote: | | It really doesn’t need to be analyzed past that. |
Ever since my favorite trumpet needed a valve rebuild, I'm somewhat concerned with minimizing the wear on the valves. The methods mentioned no doubt work fine, but as I'm hoping to still play my trumpet 40 years from now, I'd rather take out the valve and gush it in oil every few days. Unneccesary maybe, but it gives me some peace of mind.
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etc-etc
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Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 6196
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| stuartissimo wrote: | | trickg wrote: | | It really doesn’t need to be analyzed past that. |
Ever since my favorite trumpet needed a valve rebuild, I'm somewhat concerned with minimizing the wear on the valves. The methods mentioned no doubt work fine, but as I'm hoping to still play my trumpet 40 years from now, I'd rather take out the valve and gush it in oil every few days. Unneccesary maybe, but it gives me some peace of mind. |
Some valve blocks require a rebuild from day 1, for example, if one or more valves were lapped too much at the factory. |
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Rhondo
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| As an aside, I probably should have said the 1st valve is occasionally slow, not sticking. Or does ‘sticking’ include slow to return to the up position? |
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etc-etc
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| Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2024 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Rhondo wrote: | | As an aside, I probably should have said the 1st valve is occasionally slow, not sticking. Or does ‘sticking’ include slow to return to the up position? |
Yes that is also a sticky valve - it is either slow on return, slow to depress or needs extra effort to get going in either direction. If the valve does not budge, however, it is stuck. |
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david johnson
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| Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2024 3:01 am Post subject: |
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I chatted with my valves regarding this. They said they did not care how I oiled them.  |
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abontrumpet
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| Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2024 3:52 am Post subject: |
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I often oil through the slides/ports in the manner you describe.
I just tested it now, pulled the valve out, and there is an even coating of oil on the valve when I do this method. My (maybe misplaced) rationale is that you're more likely to get wear with poor oiling frequency, throwing your valves around the counter, and jimmying/spinning them back in.
For those that are complaining about grease gumming things up, use a slide oil for 1st and 3rd.
For the OP, if you valve is sticking at the bottom of the stroke, take the bottom cap off and give it a rub with a paper towel or finger. |
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zaferis
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Location: Beavercreek, OH
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| Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2024 5:08 am Post subject: |
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Unscrew and remove the valve completely, oil the valve from the top letting excess drip (a bit of a rinse) being sure to get the whole contact surface , alternately wiping the valve off to remove particulate matter and old oil - oil well replace - also lubing the threads for the cap with oil, slide gel, or grease.
In a pinch, which rarely happens because I oil my valves regularly (before they show signs of needing it), I will squirt some oil in the leadpipe and blow it through the trumpet-a good technique for rotary valves too. I will do this after using BlowDry sponges too.
I've owned trumpets for decades, used them a lot, and never had valve issues due to wear.
Though the slides, unless you depress the valve part way, very little of the oil you put in is getting to the surfaces of the valve or valve casing. And seems like an inefficient way to get lube to the entire surface of either.
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Rhondo
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| Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2024 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| abontrumpet wrote: |
For those that are complaining about grease gumming things up, use a slide oil for 1st and 3rd. . |
Did you mean to say valve oil?
Fwiw, I use Schilke slide grease on the slides and for awhile now Ultra Pure Heavy on the reverse leadpipe connection to tuning slide. 1st valve issue has been there to one degree or another regardless of what’s been used on the leadpipe. |
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Stutrumpet
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| Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2024 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| When I was a 'lad' I remember the Solo Cornet in our top level brass band would not use oil at all. He would remove a valve at a time roll it in his heavily Brylcreemed (hair cream) hair then spit on the valve! He never played a wrong note. |
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CaptPat
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Location: Eastern NC
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| Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2024 8:46 am Post subject: |
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I oil from the top, works fine, and never had a reason to try any other way. For a new horn, I'll pull the piston out and wipe it down before oiling, I'll do this for a couple of weeks.
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