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gtr1023 Regular Member
Joined: 07 Jan 2023 Posts: 22
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Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 8:44 am Post subject: Best C Trumpet |
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Hey there!
I know this topic has been discussed a lot in years past, but I want to see if things have changed at all!
I’m looking for a used C trumpet that’s good for orchestral settings for about $2000 and I’m decided on either a Bach or a Yamaha.
I’m curious as to what models you suggest looking for!
Thank you!! |
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Christian K. Peters Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Nov 2001 Posts: 1537 Location: Eugene, Oregon
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Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 10:22 am Post subject: Best C trumpet |
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Hello,
For that money an older Bach 229/25A. Some will differ with a 229/25H. I have owned a 229/25A, Yamaha 6445 and currently have some Schilkes. My C5L is really nice, but more than your budget. _________________ Christian K. Peters
Schilke Loyalist since 1976 |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2092 Location: Germany
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Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 10:50 am Post subject: |
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My C playing and experience is quite limited but I would not limit myself to Bach and Yamaha. If you have a budget (as you stated) why not check out the marketplace for other horns as well? _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Klier, (Frate or Curry) |
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zaferis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Posts: 2351 Location: Beavercreek, OH
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Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 11:08 am Post subject: |
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A Bach 180L239 25C leadpipe (std.) (many have a 25H-bigger) is the old "standard" .. not terribly hard to find a used one within your budget..
IMO This is the sound.. you may have to deal a little bit with some pitch tendencies (open E's and 2nd valve Eb's often pretty flat). I just bought an old used one for less than 2K. Played it in church yesterday - THE sound.
Mouthpiece selection is key, different throat and backbore than your Bb.
And there are aftermarket leadpipes (Blackburn, etc) that can help with some of the classic issues. But I think ultimately change the tone too much to be worth the swap.
There are some great new ones, but beyond your price point.
I'm a Bach guy but just played a friend's new Yamaha (newest C - can't remember the model #) - it is excellent. _________________ Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman |
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Mike Lockman Veteran Member
Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 463 Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 11:52 am Post subject: C trumpet |
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My opinion is Bach. Many available in your price range. The industry standard. _________________ All Bach Strad
AFM 60-471
Phi Mu Alpha |
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abontrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 May 2009 Posts: 1810
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Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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Brassnose wrote: | My C playing and experience is quite limited but I would not limit myself to Bach and Yamaha. If you have a budget (as you stated) why not check out the marketplace for other horns as well? |
In the USA, for orchestral C trumpets, you really shouldn't consider much more than Bach or Yamaha. There are many fine playing boutique instruments, but these two are the industry standards. Others would also likely be out of his price range.
For the OP: at $2k, you're looking mostly at Bach. 239/25A or 229/25H are common combos. Try try try before you buy. I'd also check out Yamaha 8335 as well as the previously mentioned 6445. Played one the other day that was surprisingly good!
Zaferis mentioned mouthpiece is important, it is very important. Get at least a 25 throat (if not 24) and for sure get a 24 backbore. |
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dankeater New Member
Joined: 23 Oct 2023 Posts: 5
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Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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Older Bach Models hold up really well and have really good build quality. I have a Bach 239 ML from the 80's and it plays like new. You should be able to find a similar model for your budget.
Although new specialty Yamaha models like the New York or Chicago are more popular, they are also much more expensive. Older Yamaha C trumpets do not play as well as older Bach models in my opinion.
If you can try out any C trumpet, maybe your teacher or colleague, do that first. $2000 is a lot of money to spend on an instrument, so make sure you like it before you buy.
Unlike what others are saying, I don't think mouthpiece will matter as much. If you already have the orchestral sound you want on your Bb trumpet mouthpiece, a good player will be able to make the same sound come from their C trumpet. They are different horns, but not as different as people treat them. Generally a more open backbore or throat will help, but don't expect a new mouthpiece to suddenly transform your sound (like how a lead mouthpiece won't suddenly make you play higher). |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2067 Location: USA
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Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | A Bach 180L239 25C leadpipe (std.) (many have a 25H-bigger) is the old "standard" .. not terribly hard to find a used one within your budget..IMO This is the sound.. |
I agree. I also think the Chicago and Philadelphia models (both have 229 bells) are nice horns.
As someone who likes the 229 bell, I also thought the Yamaha 9335 NYII model was a fine horn, though not one you'll likely find used in your price range (wasn't a big fan of the original NY model and haven't played a NYIII yet).
Edited to add:
Quote: | Zaferis mentioned mouthpiece is important, it is very important. Get at least a 25 throat (if not 24) and for sure get a 24 backbore. |
I completely agree and note that my Bach C came with a Bach Symphonic mouthpiece with a 24 throat and a 24 backbore. It does make a big difference. It's not about whether you can successfully play a C trumpet with whatever you are playing on your Bb -- you can. It's about how you can bring out the best in you C trumpet in terms of intonation, sound, etc., to make it easier for you to play to the maximum extent of your ability.
Last edited by Dayton on Tue Apr 16, 2024 5:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Winghorn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2006 Posts: 2166 Location: Olympia, Washington
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Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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Almost all the top orchestral trumpet players play Bach or Yamaha C trumpets. Also, so many classical trumpet soloists likewise use these two brands.
This is a pretty good recommendation, I would think. Or would taking the advice of posters you don’t know, and who may or may not be accomplished players, be a better way to select an instrument?
If you don’t have the money for a Bach or Yamaha professional instrument, the are other, less expensive brands to select from. Some these play pretty well. But the resale value will likely be less if you later decide on something different.
Good luck! |
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Andy Del Heavyweight Member
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Posts: 2669 Location: sunny Sydney, Australia
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Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2024 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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There are many other brands which can be played:
Schilke
Kanstul (including their Besson models) (I have 2)
B&S
Some older Courtois models
Shires
Thein (my go to)
to name a few. Of my 4 C trumpets, none are Bach/Yamaha.
cheers
Andy _________________ so many horns, so few good notes... |
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david johnson Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Jul 2002 Posts: 1622 Location: arkansas/missouri
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 2:34 am Post subject: |
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Look into Bach CML 239, or Schilke C7 |
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abontrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 May 2009 Posts: 1810
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 3:58 am Post subject: |
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Andy Del wrote: | There are many other brands which can be played: |
Of these and under $2k, you COULD consider a B&S. Guess prices are cheaper down-under. Shires is also in the conversation (again), but I don't think you're finding one in the USA for under $2k. See below for schilke
david johnson wrote: | Look into Bach CML 239, or Schilke C7 |
I would not really consider a CML, it's just not too common, but if you are really in a pinch, sure. You don't really see to many Schilke Cs in the USA. But it is a trumpet pitched in C.
Dayton wrote: | I also think the Chicago and Philadelphia models (both have 229 bells) are nice horns. |
Not bad. I'd stick to the Philly over the Chicago. Lots of people replace the front end on these horns.
dankeater wrote: | Unlike what others are saying, I don't think mouthpiece will matter as much. |
Whenever I read this, I always wonder how much orchestral experience the person writing it has, especially when they are using an ML bore C. There are many orchestral players who use the same mouthpiece on Bb trumpet, but generally their mouthpiece is optimized for C trumpet. There are a rare few who play stock on their C. Most/everybody will benefit from a larger-than-stock throat and an orchestral style backbore.
Last edited by abontrumpet on Tue Apr 16, 2024 4:36 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Trptbenge Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Feb 2002 Posts: 2392 Location: Atlanta, GA
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 4:12 am Post subject: |
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There is a French Besson Classic (Kanstul) in the marketplace right now. Those were designed in conjunction with Dennis Najoom. A very good C trumpet for the money. _________________ It's the sound that makes the difference! |
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plunkett Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2002 Posts: 564 Location: Wheeling, WV
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 4:35 am Post subject: |
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My Kanstul has been working well for me for many years - you might want to add it to your list! _________________ Pat Plunkett |
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Gabrieli Regular Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 66 Location: Germany
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 7:15 am Post subject: |
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A couple of people have mentioned B & S already. I could not agree more. About a year ago I bought one second-hand for a very good price, intending to use it as a back-up to my Bach 229/25H.
I was amazed how good it was and found the sound and intonation better than the Bach so I sold the Bach and kept the B & S.
They cost about half the price of a Bach here in Germany. |
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RL Veteran Member
Joined: 06 Sep 2009 Posts: 162
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 8:49 am Post subject: |
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Fides symphony BBG C trumpet.
Not expensive but a really nice C-trumpet |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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Trptbenge wrote: | There is a French Besson Classic (Kanstul) in the marketplace right now. Those were designed in conjunction with Dennis Najoom. A very good C trumpet for the money. |
Yes, this is what I have, a Kanstul made French Besson Classic C trumpet. According to Ron Meza of this forum (homebilly) who asked Jack Kanstul about mine:
hi louise
i have jack on the phone and he says yours has an A bell (229)
with .020 thickness
.462 bore
he said that your leadpipe is a C7 (7") pipe that dennis sent to them directly
and not a kanstul part
ron
_________________
ron meza
So basically the Kanstul made F Besson Classic is Bach 229 like.
All the best
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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