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Fritz of WA New Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2023 Posts: 6 Location: Washington state
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Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2024 5:36 pm Post subject: You learn something every day . . . |
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Been playing about a year, coming back after 55 years. I live in a condo so I practice daily with the Yamaha Silent Brass system. The YSB provides a good facsimile of what my tone sounds like while not disturbing the neighbors.
All fine until last week, when my trumpet suddenly veered off into uncontrollable weirdness, sounding more like a strangled cow than a horn. I thought maybe the YSB was faulty . . or its cables . . .nope. I cleaned and re-oiled the valves. Nope.
Well, maybe it was time for a deep clean. So I performed that task and later, re-assembled everything, but no joy.
Finally, I discovered the problem: the water key on the main tuning slide was not sealing properly upon release after discharge of water. Resulting leak of air sent the sound all over the place.
Solution? I put a drop of valve oil on the hinge, and I also make sure each time I clear the water out that key properly re-seats and seals.
Anyone else have anything similar happen? |
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Andy Cooper Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1853 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
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Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2024 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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Yes - turned out it was time to replace the spring. |
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JayKosta Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2018 Posts: 3329 Location: Endwell NY USA
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Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 5:58 am Post subject: |
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Lever type water keys usually have a spring with 2 'legs' that either point straight back towards the finger pad, or the legs are wrapped around the posts and cut short.
I prefer to leave the legs uncut, because cutting leaves a sharp point and makes removal of a broken spring difficult. _________________ Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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TrumpetMD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Oct 2008 Posts: 2424 Location: Maryland
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Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2024 6:38 am Post subject: Re: You learn something every day . . . |
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Fritz of WA wrote: | Solution? I put a drop of valve oil on the hinge, and I also make sure each time I clear the water out that key properly re-seats and seals. |
Thanks for sharing. A little drop of oil goes a long way.
When I clean my horn, I put a drop of oil on the water key springs, the third valve stop rod screw threads, and the valve cap threads.
Mike _________________ Bach Stradivarius 43* Trumpet (1974), Bach 6C Mouthpiece.
Bach Stradivarius 184 Cornet (1988), Yamaha 13E4 Mouthpiece
Olds L-12 Flugelhorn (1969), Yamaha 13F4 Mouthpiece.
Plus a few other Bach, Getzen, Olds, Carol, HN White, and Besson horns. |
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Fritz of WA New Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2023 Posts: 6 Location: Washington state
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Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2024 3:34 pm Post subject: Update on water key issue |
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Took the trumpet to a repair tech to have the spring replaced on the water key. He cleaned it all and showed me that the problem was that the hinge housing and the tiny bolt that runs through it had all corroded badly, just from saliva and one year's playing. Said he'd never seen such corrosion on a newer instrument.
I checked with the manufacturer, found I have another 9 years on the warranty. I sent them a couple pictures I'd taken when the repair tech had it disassembled, and today I received a warranty replacement (i.e., free to me) main tuning slide with its brand new water key assembly.
I have also learned to angle the instrument carefully when discharging water so that it will drop straight down rather than have a chance to run along the curve into the assembly. I also dry it thoroughly when I am done playing. |
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Brassnose Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Mar 2016 Posts: 2074 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sat Apr 13, 2024 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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That’s very odd. Is your horn from a decent manufacturer and did you buy it *new* a year ago? Or was it *new old stock* or something and has been lying around for years and maybe corrosion had already started and no one noted?
My Blessing was likely built in 1979/1980 and I am still on the first springs, hinges, etc. (not the first corks, of course ) and I don’t think I ever oiled the springs yet the are perfectly fine.
Good to hear that the warranty side of things is working out _________________ 2019 Martin Schmidt eXcellence
1992 Bach 43GH/43
1989 Kühnl & Hoyer Model 15 flugel
1980/2023 Custom Blessing Scholastic C 😎
1977 Conn 6B
1951 Buescher 400 Lightweight
AR Resonance, Frate, Klier |
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Fritz of WA New Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2023 Posts: 6 Location: Washington state
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Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2024 10:48 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | That’s very odd. Is your horn from a decent manufacturer and did you buy it *new* a year ago? Or was it *new old stock* or something and has been lying around for years and maybe corrosion had already started and no one noted?"
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Brand new last April, a model JTR1100S, made by Jupiter, who also made the student model my grandson has been playing without any problems for a year and a half. I really like my horn, and was extremely pleased by the rapid response by Jupiter, who replaced the tuning slide with no reluctance whatsoever. |
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rhatheway Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Apr 2024 Posts: 197 Location: Texas
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Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2024 5:14 am Post subject: Re: You learn something every day . . . |
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Fritz of WA wrote: |
Finally, I discovered the problem: the water key on the main tuning slide was not sealing properly upon release after discharge of water. Resulting leak of air sent the sound all over the place.
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I had a similar situation, but it wasn't the spring, it was the cork. Turns out it had dried out (like you, I picked my horn back up almost a year ago, hadn't played for 35 years, so my guess is it had dried out from sitting unplayed for that long), so air was leaking around it and I wasn't getting a proper seal. Once I replaced the cork, the trumpet sounded like it should and life was good again. _________________ Richard H
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Working on getting my chops back...
“Without music, life would be a mistake” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
1968 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1958 Conn Director 14A |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8921 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Mon Apr 29, 2024 9:00 am Post subject: |
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I had a shop replace a cork with a peel-and-stick rubber pad. For days I struggled with that horn. I began to suspect it was leaking but was at a brass camp away from home. A repair savvy camper took pity on me and whittled down a wine cork and superglued it in and solved the problem. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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