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trumpjosh Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2002 Posts: 741 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2023 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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That's all well and good, but I have not been able to find any dealers who have this in stock besides the dealer who got the display model from NAMM. I certainly could be wrong, but if so those who have it in stock are keeping it a secret. _________________ www.milanomusic.com |
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PH Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5862 Location: New Albany, Indiana
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:03 am Post subject: |
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Okay, this week I played a new Bach 37 with the M+ configuration in lacquer. It was purchased new this summer from Schmitt Music in Minnesota by one of my current students. It was an OUTSTANDING instrument. It wasn't my personal cup of tea, but the intonation was spot on. The tone was super even over the 3 octaves I have available. The sound was "complete," by which I mean there was a balance of highs and lows (not dark or bright, but balanced and resonant). The sound was a bit lighter and more centered (and "French") to my ears than my new 43. The blow felt a bit tighter than my personal horn, kind of like what I think they were going for with the Yamaha Z horns, except the horn didn't fight back or resist the flow. (Personally, I have never been able to do much with the Yamaha Zs. They always feel like they are fighting me.)
Killer horn. _________________ Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
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G Bechs Regular Member
Joined: 25 Jun 2012 Posts: 15 Location: Exeter, New Hampshire
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Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2023 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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Have more out there been able to play the M37X in the past month?
Also, does anyone know whether it will be offered in silver or only lacquer? |
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nowave Veteran Member
Joined: 01 Oct 2003 Posts: 453 Location: brooklyn
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Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2023 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Wondering the same thing - when will these new horns ever hit the stores? I very much want to try this horn and the new lightweight 72 but they’re simply nonexistent. |
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65strad Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Aug 2005 Posts: 979 Location: Toms River, New Jersey
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Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2023 8:41 am Post subject: |
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chef8489 wrote: | bgosvig wrote: | chef8489 wrote: | bgosvig wrote: | chef8489 wrote: | I think Andy Lott might have been playing on one recently, but might have been mistaken. Maybe he will jump in here. |
Hi Chef:
I noticed in your signature, you list a 2023 19072G/43 pipe with 1st Trigger.
Bach currently has a 19072X listed, also with a 43 pipe, but no trigger.
I'm guessing these are different models, or did you have the trigger added as an option? |
My horn was a custom from the factory. Worked with Andy to get it made. It has a 72 gold brass side seam bell, 3rd slide water key and reverse slide stop, 43 leadpipe and 1st trigger. It's an amazing horn and I posted pics in my thread https://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=157778&highlight=
As far as sound and playing goes, my horn would be closer to a 19072v than a 19072x. I'm even contemplating sending it back and getting a second vindabona slide fitted so I have that option as well. |
WOW!! That is one stunning instrument. Gorgeous!! That bell looks like it's bronze? Love the color. It's amazing that a firm as big as Bach will allow folks to Build-A-Bach to get exactly what they want.
What an incredibly cool trumpet. Congrats!! |
I didn't get it through Build-a-bach. It was through Andy Lott. He was the High Brass manager at Bach and now is still consulting and designing horns for Bach.He currently works with Bach artists on their horns and I believe will work with a limited number of people if they need a custom horn from Bach. He was amazing to deal with and I am looking forward to working with him again on a cornet project and hopefully a c trumpet.
The 72 bell on my horn us a gold brass bell and not bronze. I have been contemplating putting a bronze bell on the cornet, but I have been advised gold brass would probably give me the sound I am looking for. |
Very interesting! Back in 2008 I won a Dream Trumpet contest sponsored by Bach and Dillon music made to my exact specs thanks to Tedd Waggoner. 1st 2 piece valve casing in decades, made about a year and a half prior to the Artisan series, 43 lightweight goldbrass bell with side seam and French bell bead, reverse 3rd slide stop, #7 leadpipe with longer NY style receiver, Standard weight chassis although lightweight gauge 0.020bell. Only Bach Chicago C has lightweight bell and standard weight chassis during when I spec'd mine MADE IN ELKHART IN, USA engraved on left hand side on 2nd valve cluster on nickle part, narrow wrap as Chicago C, narrow radius main tuning slide with single brace, hex pull nubs, slide beads on all slides and he sent me an Artisan case. Beautiful playing horn and my prize of a lifetime. A true "one off". So cool to see so many of the features of my one off on production horns now!
Pro friend in NY has a 190x37 and loves it! Said it reminds him of an excellent Mt. Vernon. Can't wait to try it. Heard that production stopped temporarily due to old school methods of manufacturing techniques fading into history. Curious if anyone that has played one of these currently (limited produced) 190X's that agree _________________ Tom
'08 Bach factory custom "one off" 43*G SN#2008
'65 Bach 181 37 SN#30836
'67 Bach 180 37 SN#39773
'70 Bach 181 37 SN#58831
'72 Bach 180S 43 SN#70503
'05 Bach VBS 196 Picc SN#560142
'07 Bach Chicago C SN#656602 |
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njt Regular Member
Joined: 14 Apr 2004 Posts: 37 Location: New Hampshire
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Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2024 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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Any new news on these horns?? _________________ Bach 50th Anniversary 19037 S
Reeves mouthpieces
-Nicholas |
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Jabroni Veteran Member
Joined: 25 May 2015 Posts: 146
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Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:21 pm Post subject: Bach models |
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Bach has come out with several models in the past few years, which are now discontinued. To each their own, but after trying all of them, I was not impressed. Craftsmanship, intonation and playability were average at best in my opinion. Recently, I tried the new VB bflat at TMEA. Again, satisfactory at best. In addition, Bach didn’t bother bringing anything but a few bflat trumpets, compared to Yamaha, Schilke and Adams. Bach has also decided to rehire the rep who had been on staff for several years, who again in my opinion was part of the issue in the past. Can anyone shed light on the decisions this company is making? |
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chef8489 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Aug 2011 Posts: 862 Location: Johnson City Tn
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Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: Bach models |
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Jabroni wrote: | Bach has come out with several models in the past few years, which are now discontinued. To each their own, but after trying all of them, I was not impressed. Craftsmanship, intonation and playability were average at best in my opinion. Recently, I tried the new VB bflat at TMEA. Again, satisfactory at best. In addition, Bach didn’t bother bringing anything but a few bflat trumpets, compared to Yamaha, Schilke and Adams. Bach has also decided to rehire the rep who had been on staff for several years, who again in my opinion was part of the issue in the past. Can anyone shed light on the decisions this company is making? |
What models are you saying has been made in past few years that has been discontinued and what is the Vb flat? Are yiu referring to the Vindabona and if so which one ?
I would disagree highly on the quality of the modern Bach horns being average at best especially compared to Adam's and even most of the Yamaha line of horns. Bach has made huge strides over the past 10 years and the 190 horns made today are far superior to the 180s of the past 40 to 50 years.
Every Adam's horn I tried felt cheap and the valves were not very good, brass was thin on the valve casing and they stripped and crossthreaded really easy.
Yamaha only really has a few of thr upper high end line that have any character. A lot of my friends that are Yahama artists agree on that as well and won't even touch the standard 8335 horns.
The issue in the past , 90% stemmed from the auto union and how they wanted to run the plant. How they changed how qc was done and even how production line was setup. _________________ Current horns
2023 Bach 19072G/43 pipe with 1st trigger
1966 H.N. White King Silver Flair
1965 H.N. White King Super 20 Sllversonic Symphony 1st trigger |
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adagiotrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 912
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Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2024 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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I played all three of the new Bachs that were at ITG last year. I thought they all were terrrific, and this is coming from someone who plays a Mount Vernon Large Bore 25 on a regular basis for classical work and a Schilke B3 for commercial playing on a daily basis. Of the three, the 37M was the standout. Even though I have played large bore horns exsclusively for decades, the sound and especially the response of the 37M was something I don't remember ever experiencing. It was almost as if the note came out as I was taking a breath. If I didn't think I would have needed a divorce lawyer when I got home, I would have bought the horn. |
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abontrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 May 2009 Posts: 1808
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Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: Bach models |
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Jabroni wrote: | Bach has come out with several models in the past few years, which are now discontinued. To each their own, but after trying all of them, I was not impressed. Craftsmanship, intonation and playability were average at best in my opinion. |
Yes, Bach has been incredibly "not great" for quite some time now. For a moment it seemed as if they were turning a corner. Hopefully they can carry that momentum.
Jabroni wrote: | Can anyone shed light on the decisions this company is making? |
Nobody really knows as it confounds the senses. |
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Chadwick Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2009 Posts: 144 Location: United States
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Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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A few retailers have separately relayed to me directly that Conn-Selmer has had various fulfillment issues of late with the 190 series, so not many people outside of the event crowds have likely tried these horns.
I got a call Friday from a sales rep that spoke with Conn-Selmer directly, and Conn-Selmer now estimates delivery of the Bach 19072X in May 2024 — so over nine months since I started looking in August. 🤷🏻♂️
For what it's worth: Yamaha had fulfillment issues with the 1st Gen 8335LA for the first year or two after it was announced, but that trumpet ultimately became a mainstay for a lot of commercial players in the years following. I'm holding out hope that a similar trajectory will happen for Bach and the 190-X series trumpets. |
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abontrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 May 2009 Posts: 1808
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Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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Chadwick wrote: | fulfillment issues |
I know this isn't what you're saying, but I personally don't think these are "fulfillment issues." Pro trumpets are not produced by 500,000+ workers in China like the iPhone; they are still mostly a handmade/artisan products. From announcement to fulfillment, I would expect 1-2 years for them to be readily available. This is an expected timeline. But maybe I'm out of the loop.
iPhone numbers: "1.5 million people work in their supply chain, a third of which work in “final assembly” mega-factories. This means that during the same three months Apple set these financial records, 1 million Apple workers made the parts for these phones and 500,000 put them together." |
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PH Bill Adam/Carmine Caruso Forum Moderator
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 5862 Location: New Albany, Indiana
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Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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I've been told that it is taking longer to get things up and running than they expected. The new Bbs are being made but the weekly output of instruments is roughly half of what they expected and hope to eventually achieve. So they are making fewer than demand requires, but they refuse to let quality suffer for the sake of quantity. That is refreshing, expecially given the QC issues over the last couple of decades. The C trumpets are not ready to go into production, although they are "close." The prototypes are getting rave reviews, but they aren't road worthy yet.
It's like Orson Wells used to say on behalf of some wine maker. "We will sell no wine before it's time." _________________ Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Clinical Professor of Jazz Trumpet, University of Illinois
Professor Emeritus of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops 1976-2019
JazzRetreats.com |
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Chadwick Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Oct 2009 Posts: 144 Location: United States
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Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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abontrumpet wrote: | I personally don't think these are "fulfillment issues." [...] But maybe I'm out of the loop. |
W/r/t the 19072X, I haven't seen any non-demo models at any retailer since I started searching back in August, and I've spoken to sales reps at a few stores to be sure.
PH wrote: | So they are making fewer than demand requires, but they refuse to let quality suffer for the sake of quantity. That is refreshing, expecially given the QC issues over the last couple of decades. |
100% I would rather wait just a little longer for these new Bachs to be ready, than to get one tomorrow and it be a sub-par product. I'm actually really curious to see how many 190-X series trumpets Conn-Selmer will ultimately produce over the next couple of years. |
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Jabroni Veteran Member
Joined: 25 May 2015 Posts: 146
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Posted: Mon Mar 11, 2024 4:32 pm Post subject: Why? |
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Why would Bach rehire someone that was apart of the problem for so
Many years? Elusive answers and poor customer service on a regular basis. |
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Dayton Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Mar 2013 Posts: 2063 Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 1:14 am Post subject: |
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It is unfortunate that production issues are limiting Conn Selmer's ability to capitalize on the "buzz" for their new and revised models. I can't speak of the entire line up, but the 19037 II and the 19072V are FANTASTIC horns, and while the 17043GYR wasn't the right set up for me, it is nonetheless a very fine horn as well.
[Edited to add the 17043GYR.]
Last edited by Dayton on Tue Mar 12, 2024 4:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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OldSchoolEuph Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Apr 2012 Posts: 2455
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 3:03 am Post subject: Re: Bach models |
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Jabroni wrote: | Bach has come out with several models in the past few years, which are now discontinued. To each their own, but after trying all of them, I was not impressed. Craftsmanship, intonation and playability were average at best in my opinion. Recently, I tried the new VB bflat at TMEA. Again, satisfactory at best. |
"Several models in the past few years": "several", understood to mean more than 3, while "few" is used to mean 3 in standard colloquial speech, leaving us with an assertion of at least 4 models in the last 3 years that you are talking about. The only models introduced since 2020 are the new ones first shown last April.
Going back further, there are the Mariachi and 1B Commercial horns, introduced a decade ago, and then the Anniversary model. While the other two have their proponents and detractors, you will be hard-pressed to find many who disliked the Anniversary model. To get beyond 3 though for "several", then you are essentially discounting the 190 series, and everything introduced since the strike.
If your point was that you like only UAW-built Bachs, well, you are welcome to them. In my experience, there are some great ones, but no where near a majority.
Of the "new" line, the 37M and the Apollo seem to have won wide, though not universal, acclaim, even if some of the other models have reviews that are a mixed bag. _________________ Ron Berndt
www.trumpet-history.com
2017 Austin Winds Stage 466
1962 Mt. Vernon Bach 43
1954 Holton 49 Stratodyne
1927 Conn 22B
1957 Holton 27 cornet
1985 Yamaha YEP-621
1975 Yamaha YEP-321 Custom
1965 Besson Baritone
1975 Olds Recording R-20 |
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abontrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 08 May 2009 Posts: 1808
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 4:57 am Post subject: Re: Bach models |
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OldSchoolEuph wrote: | "several", understood to mean more than 3, while "few" is used to mean 3 in standard colloquial speech, leaving us with an assertion of at least 4 models in the last 3 years that you are talking about. |
There is no universal rule when it comes to the usage of "few." Perhaps you could ask to what models Jabroni was referring?
OldSchoolEuph wrote: | Of the "new" line, the 37M and the Apollo seem to have won wide, though not universal, acclaim, even if some of the other models have reviews that are a mixed bag |
Idk, Sean Jones sounds pretty good on his not "37M and Apollo." There aren't enough "horns in hands/dealers" to give any blanket reviews of the new line. The horns I have played from Andy have been phenomenal but that's just my experience. |
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a.kemp Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Aug 2008 Posts: 680 Location: NYC
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 7:53 am Post subject: |
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We’ll have no knowledge of the consistency of these new horns until Bach can manufacture enough to get them into stores.
I’m not making any claims based on how X player, who is an Artist sounds on his/her new Bach (which has been tweaked for their liking). Not to mention, Sean Jones would sound great on any horn.
We’ll know soon enough.
(Well, maybe not soon) |
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Daniel Barenboim Veteran Member
Joined: 20 May 2011 Posts: 250
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Posted: Tue Mar 12, 2024 8:22 am Post subject: |
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What is this 37M model people keep referring to? Medium bore?
DB |
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