Chris Botti on the Leno Tonight Show

[pfrank]

I'd like to add a couple things: I put in the details of my personal band experiences because that's the sorta thing I like to read about here, as something, a tid-bit of something could be relevant to someone sometime in their own experience. (It's happened to me from reading posts here.) There are allot of ways to go in a trumpet career or serious hobby. It realy depends on what kind of music you like to (or have to)play.
Another thought on Chris Botti: Don (I think)mentioned that the back-up players in one of his CDs (the same one I bought, I think) weren't all that great. I agree, I thought they sounded brittle and uncomfortable, like they were doing something they weren't used to doing, or there were gaps between the writers/producers and players and the players weren't THERE as creative forces. It's so much better when players produce too, or help, players know their instruments and/or technology much better than "suits" do. It's This quality in C.B.'s CD that lead me to think he had "handlers" he should dump. I could be wrong, but that's how it seems to me. I liked his work with Sting better than his own stuff. With Sting he didn't do no dance moves (what I saw), and there was a sense of sacred space that framed the beauty of his sound well. Sting's a bit of a mystic. A talented but glossy overproduced hip quazi-sophisticated environmental-activist mystic. (My opinion only)
With his SOUND, If Chris Botti ever decides to do an album for the non-masses, the aficianados, or just for Lady Creativity's sake, he could make quite a long lasting splash that will sell for years and years and put him in the league of history's great music makers. I hope he tries it some day.
_________________
"Truth is not in the heights but at the bottom of all things."
Paul Twitchell

[jgadvert]

[quote]
With his SOUND, If Chris Botti ever decides to do an album for the non-masses, the aficianados, or just for Lady Creativity's sake, he could make quite a long lasting splash that will sell for years and years and put him in the league of history's great music makers. I hope he tries it some day.

Hey, figured out how to use the quote thing.
Not sure if I like it.

Yeah, he could go down as a great creative contributor but more likely would sell a few thousand records(that very few!) and settle back in to obscurity (except to music industry people) and do what ever he was doing before(such as being a studio musician).

BTW, one last thought from me. You have a unique situation where you seem to have regular opportunities to perform your originals.
Those who dont know better(such as young people reading this) dont know that most people who take the "creative stance".

1) Have very few places to play. And most you do get to play at are seedy little joints.
UNDERSTAND! NO PLACE TO PLAY!
PEOPLE DONT WANT TO HEAR "YOUR" FAVORITE MUSIC.

2) Make very, very little money.

My approach produces opposite results in
most cases.

If CB didnt go commercial, there probaly wouldnt have been a Pay Per View special and numerous appearances on other TV shows.
THE ORIGINAL POST WOULD NOT HAVE OCCURED CAUSE HE WOULDNT HAVE BEEN ON LENO

[ This Message was edited by: jgadvert on 2002-04-15 02:01 ]

[ This Message was edited by: jgadvert on 2002-04-15 13:06 ]

[jakepainter]

JGADVERT

Do you plan to do originals with your band at some point ?

[jgadvert]

Jake:

Yes we do plan on doing originals very soon.
More than likely, I will be assembling a different staff to perform these. Most of my guys rely on the money from our steady work and few have the guts(and faith) to make that investment in themselves. I understand because these guys support families and cant afford to take the risk.

The songs I wrote are designed to be commercial caliber hits. They sound very much like what you hear on Top 40 radio(like what Puff Daddy might do.) Puff Daddy gets paid well because he has a clear understanding of what the public wants to hear. Most TH posters would hate what I have written(which I take as a good sign that I'm on the right track!)

NOTICE I DIDNT WRITE WHAT I LIKE, WHAT MY FAVORITE MUSIC IS OR WHAT WILL EXPRESS MY CREATIVE VISION.
I WROTE WHAT I THINK THE GREATEST MAJORITY OF RECORD BUYERS WOULD WANT TO HEAR.

You clearly have to have a "support system"
(like your parents or savings) to go "express myself creatively" route. We don't.

We plan on making a common transition which is establish ourselves as a cover band(which is very much done) and slowly include originals in the reportoire(spelling).

[adamcz]

I know plenty of musicians who are genuine artists, playing real music, and making a living. In fact all six of the trumpet teachers I have studied with play creatively, and have four walls and a ceiling to sleep under. I could name 50 great trumpet players working today who aren't spending their time in "seedy" clubs. It's not like money and art are mutually exclusive goals that cannot both be achieved. However, I think most players have one thing or the other driving them through life. I don't have a problem with the fact that the general public is ignorant about art, or that there are trade musicians there to spoon feed them familiar music. I guess I'm just more interested in discussing what is beautiful then what tune is going to appeal to the age 25-32 female middle class demographic. I guess I need to keep looking for another forum.

[jgadvert]

Adam:

I respect you AND your point of view completely!

but....

Lots of trumpet players are out there playing originals and making a living? Where? Fantasy land?

Any facts to substantiate "your claims" (ha ha)

BTW, ever get to NY?(since your a beantown guy). Maybe you could join us one night!
Bet you'll have fun!!

[pfrank]

[jgadvert]

Pfrank:

You never heard of a band(or individual artist) progressing from covers to originals??
I could give you thousands of examples.
The Beatles got their start playing covers in Liverpool. Bruce Springsteen played local music clubs (all covers) in New Jersey for years. He like many artists wernt allowed to play their originals. Why? Most establishment owners consider it too risky to let bands do originals. People dont know the songs and probably(on average wont like the songs) I'd say 10% of establishment are devoted to original acts. Most of these groups work very inexpenively. You have a rare situation obviously where your songs go over. Most dont, you know that! You even said yourself "you didnt know how the audience would respond".

Whats your web address?

Writers who specialize in writing hits songs have been an important part of the business for many years. Many of the songs you hear on radio were written by the same groups/clicks of people. This was very prominent in the 50, 60's etc.. Today, do you know how many hits songs Puff Daddy is responsible for? Cant wait for someone to say
"I dont like him so who cares"

Thank goodness their are supporters of classical music. I play in a local Philaharmonic Orchestra sponsored by Alexander Bernstein and dedicated to the beliefs of Leonard. Yeah, I know I cant spell the name right. Thats right, many of the young people enjoying these wonderful experiences(playing classical) will find very few opportunities to play after graduation.
Continuing after graduation is a great challenge.



[ This Message was edited by: jgadvert on 2002-04-17 01:47 ]

[djazz]

This is an interesting topic. Has anyone read any interviews of Botti's? On the one's I've read he talked a little about wanting to make this most recent record with a cafe del mar / Miles ballad vibe. Cafe Del Mar is an Ambient music label, and I think anyone familiar with this style of music would agree that Mile's ballads could be included as an influence in the development of this style of music. Mile's is often sited by ambient musicians as an influence.

I'm wondering how many posters are comparing this against there own defintion of jazz instead of just as music. As far as ambient music goes I think this is a great record. It's supposed to be chilled out, and it has some of the same production/sound qualities as other recordings in that style. Check out some other ambient artists like those on the Cafe del mar label or others like some of Brian Eno's stuff as a point reference.

As far as ground breaking- Botti's popularity could mean more jobs for more trumpet players that are capable of fitting into the many diverse musical situations that are out there. IF you can compliment them with your playing-- some financially rewarding-some artisticly-some both.

Of course there are shades of Jazz here since Botti studied jazz at Indiana with David Baker and then in NY with Woody Shaw and is a capable (to say the least) improviser and reader.

I was just at the Brass Conference here in NY and I must say we trumpet players are especially susceptible to the 'ego trap' of higher, louder, faster, and all the other trumpet jock stuff that goes along with that.
It was interesting to hang out there for the weekend.

The biggest lesson I took away form it was -Let's not forget to be musicians first, and trumpet players second. Whatever that means to your own personal musical vision- be it making a steady living you can depend on, or pioneering a new super-future-jazz, or doing both at the same time.

From my ears that's what it sounds like Botti is doing- trying to make music first, and of course being the trumpet player for Joni Mitchell, Paul Simon, Natilie Merchant, and most recently Sting- there's a good chance someone will be willing to record/package/and sell that music for him.

[pfrank]

jgadfvert:
You never heard of a band(or individual artist) progressing from covers to originals?? I could give you thousands of examples.
Pfrank: I wrote "I have NEVER heard of a sucessful original band that started out working as a sucessful cover band. (Maybe a few covers but not a happening business, usually covers are a means to getting people to listen to the originals. That has to be the first goal..." I specify "a happening business" to distinguish the sort of thing You do from the bands that are forced to do covers to start. Your first intention was to play for "the masses" and make a living at it. (By the way I'm listening to Dave Douglas on the radio right now, what a lovely day) All the artists you mention, were original writers First. Covers can be fun and a learning experience. When the Beatles were learning and playing Muddy Waters, it was pretty unusual. They weren't covering the latest Top Of The Pops on English telly. They wanted to be an antidote to that! I've heard tape of an early Springstein gig. They did some blues rock covers, but he also went on a poetic rant that forshadowed the direction he would eventually take. But as I said above, the majority of rock IS a rearrangement of standard forms.

jg: Most establishment owners consider it too risky to let bands do originals.
pfrank: I think that depends on where you are. There are cover bands in the suberbs, but in the college based Cities and arty towns, (like Portsmouth NH, Athens GA, Madison and Boston of course, etc.) you can be original. If you do a cover, it has to be eclectic, because there are alot of sophisticated folks who will laugh you off the stage. I think you need to get out of the Megalopolis of greater NY/NJ. Any place where there are women with Big Hair. (kidding)

jg: You have a rare situation obviously where your songs go over. Most dont, you know that! You even said yourself "you didnt know how the audience would respond".
pfrank: Did I say that? I was mistaken if I did. I Knew people would like it. I didn't know how many, though.

jg: Whats your web address?
pfrank: I have a link from my posts. I just don't want anybody putting my name into google to have access to all this. I have changing opinions, and don't want to be nailed by something I said years ago...

jg: Writers who specialize in writing hits songs have been an important part of the business for many years.
pfrank: I know! and they Love what they do. There are people who are qualified to write a hit. It has to be a priority, though. It Does tend to be Urban Contemporary stuff. (well, in Country music also) Cut-outs where the image of the "Star" is #1.
One of the things I agree with Wynton on, is that state of market exploitation of the black comminities. What there is left of them. Archie Shepp said that they should be studying Coltrane and Parker like the Europeans did Bach and Beethoven. Those jazz artists were as deep and accomplished as the classical greats. But it don't sell Cools or Fubu or Colt 45, and That is a crime.







[ This Message was edited by: pfrank on 2002-04-17 09:52 ]

[jgadvert]

Yo Pfrank!

I like dem NY goils wit da big hair ova der

Wanna save me 10 hours scanning your posts and email me your website address?(will be held in confidence...promise)