The Really Underappreciated!

Larry Smithee · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 4399

The previous undeappreciated thread got me to thinking about a few player who are rarely if ever mentioned around here and I was wondering if any of you had any thoughts about these guys.
Mark Isham
Tiger Okoshi
Bobby Lewis
Enrico Rava

Larry Smithee

pfrank · Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2002 7:07 am Post subject:

OK, great, I agree (but don't know Bobby Lewis).
Isham is a great musician. His playing is Miles influenced (even down to using old Martins) and he is one of the most working score-makers/producers in the country. (the theme from ER etc.) I love his Mile tribute album, reminds me of those spring days of 1975 when there were groups playing Bitches Brew type material.
Tiger is a gass, as they say. He was around Boston allot in the 70s, and I saw him a few times. Great firey tone. Good jazz player. Don't own any of his recordings though.
I've loved Mr Ra and Mr Va (one of Enriko Rava's albums) since his recordings on ECM came out (with John Abercrombie on guitar) and that made me seek out other Italian releases of his. He defines laconic, relaxed, warm jazz trumpet and flugelhorn sound. Very flexable. Good warm weather music. Another Miles influenced player. There is one thing I heard, an Italian movey score where Rava is playing flugelhorn, in a section of 4 flugelhorns. That was a sound...
Thanks for bringing these guys up, I had noticed their absence and thought it strange, (especially Isham)
_________________
"Truth is not in the heights but at the bottom of all things."
Paul Twitchell

adamcz · Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2002 7:46 am Post subject:

I actually studied with Tiger for a semester a couple years ago, and I didn't think anything special about his playing. This past January I checked him out at the IAJE thing though, and he brought tears to my eyes. I have never heard anyone play music more sincerely then that. I keep meaning to ask him for a couple more lessons now!

I like Mark Isham's film scoring a lot more then his trumpet playing... I thought his last few scores have been especially good. Any time I've tried to ask him for advice about something, all he'll talk about is that L Ron Hubbard crap, so I guess just stick to listening to him.

I haven't heard Bobby Lewis, or Enrico Rava... what kind of stuff do they play?

I wonder if any of you guys have checked out John Aley? I guess for anybody not living in Madison there aren't a lot of chances to hear him, but he usually plays at the Monette thing over the summer, and probably some midwest tours with the Wisconsin Brass Quintet. If you get a chance, treat yourself to hearing that beautiful warm sound of his.

Martin · Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2002 11:04 am Post subject:

I never heard about Bobby Lewis, but the other three are definitely worth listening to. Rava has done some beautiful albums on ECM, lately he´s been with the french Label Bleu. Also, he did a fabulous duet album with pianist Ran Blake for the german label Between The Lines.
I like Isham´s Miles album a lot, and I have an old ECM album by Gary Burton with Tiger, Steve Swallow and Roy Haynes ("Times Square", I think) - fantastic.
To the list of seriously underrated players I might add:
Tomasz Stanko - what a sound!! He´s really different.
_________________
All the best

Martin
_____________________________________________________________________
"I have found that it is enough when a single note is beautifully played." - Arvo Pärt

pfrank · Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2002 12:17 pm Post subject:

Isn't Tomasz Stanko on ECM too? I think I saw an add in Downbeat and took note. Uses a bent mp? Really, ANYBODY on ECM interests me, and there have been many over the years: Eberhard Weber, Kenny Wheeler, Dave Holland, Codona, Egberto Gismonte, Colon Walcot (!) to name just a few. That guy, Manfred Eicher, the head guy at ECM loves the "art of acoustic reverb" and artists who do too.
_________________
"Truth is not in the heights but at the bottom of all things."
Paul Twitchell

brenter · Veteran Member Joined: 14 Nov 2001 Posts: 135

I feel that Kenny Dorham never got the credit he deserved. Here's a guy that at certain periods had to work at a munitions factory, music stores, and at the post office because he couldn't make a living as a jazz musician. He died of kidney failure and was broke, as I understand. He was so respected by his peers; even Miles (who seems to criticize a lot) went out of his way to praise KD as a musician. He should have moved to Europe like Dexter Gordon and Art Farmer did. At least he would have been treated more like the artist that he was.

dales · Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2002 7:05 pm Post subject:

I like Toshinori Kondo in the few recordings of his I've heard. One of them is an LP from 1982, a freely improvised performance with kitchen-sink percussionist Paul Lovens called _The Last Supper_. I like Kondo's ideas, and he uses a variety of unconventional techniques to express them, including extensive use of the pedal register.

Kondo is also on a CD by tenor saxophonist Peter Brotzmann, who is an Albert Ayler descendent, called _Die Like a Dog_. The disc is an Ayler tribute, with William Parker on bass and Hamed Drake on drums, and it's modeled after the quartet Ayler had with Don Cherry in 1964. The music is sort of an improvised suite that uses Ayler's music (and St. James Infirmary) as themes or signposts. Some of Kondo's playing gets processed through electronics. Again, I like his ideas.

There's more info about Kondo at http://grommens.tripod.com/Music/kondo_frame.htm.

[ This Message was edited by: dales on 2002-04-15 22:12 ]

trptsbaker · Posted: Mon Apr 15, 2002 7:59 pm Post subject:

Bobby Lewis was, and probably still is, the ultimate Chicago lead trumpet, 30 years of newcomers notwithstanding. Last time I played with him (4? yrs,. ago), he was playing a gold plated Schilke X3L. On a 3C, I believe. He has also played gold Bach trumpets, for the gearheads out there. Huge, fat sound, big chops, and stylistic discernment up the wazoo, which is, to me, sadly lacking among the newer players. As for Tiger Okoshi, I was fortunate to have played in the a trumpet section with him. Buddy Rich Big Band, '76. The section was Billy Lamb, tpt.1, Tom Baker (me) tpt. 2 and 1, Tom Harrell, tpt. 3, Tiger Okoshi, tpt. 4. I must tell you, standing between Tiger and Tom every night and hearing these guys play solos that would kill the average trumpeter was an experience that will last a lifetime. Tiger has the most amazing technical chops, but he uses them so musically, on improvised solos, that you just can't believe it. As for Harrell, well that guy is not even human, trumpet -wise. He is, apparently, a trumpet. Buddy used to try to bust his chops, making him play like 12 straight up-tempo choruses on some screamer chart. Never did. T.

Larry Smithee · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 4399

Trptsbaker,
Thanks for the info on Bobby Lewis. I have one solo recording of this guy (although I have be aware of his work for years). He has chops and a sound to die for. Obviously he is little known among the TH group, judging by the responses above. He is worthy of looking into and deserving of the the title "The Really Underappreaciated".
Larry Smithee

tcutrpt · Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2002 12:32 pm Post subject:

I heard Tiger play at the ITG conference in Evansville and loved his playing. I'm not a huge jazz fan and usually get bored after 45 minutes or so, but he kept my attention with his great musicality and sense of humor.

Matt

Martin · Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2002 12:52 pm Post subject:

Paul,

you´re right, Stanko is with ECM. He just released a beautiful new album, "Soul of Things". Also check out "Litania - The Music of Krzysztof Komeda". In fact, I love all of his albums. Stanko is the only trumpet player I know who has mastered the art of singing into his horn á la Mangelsdorff. Yes, he uses a bent mouthpiece - a Bach, as far as I can tell, with a hexagonal tone intensifier - and a Schilke trumpet. I have never seen him use anything else, and for a reason - this guy has found his own sound.
_________________
All the best

Martin
_____________________________________________________________________
"I have found that it is enough when a single note is beautifully played." - Arvo Pärt

PH · Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2002 5:43 pm Post subject:

Martin-

I really like Stanko and dig what he does with the multiphonics. However, there's a young cat who takes this to an entirely cifferent level of sophistication and is extremely musical in the process His name is Matt Shulman. He is also the guy who invented the "Shulman System". You can hear a little bit of his playing on his website (where he sells the Shulman System), but you really need to hear the entire CD to dig how deep his approach to multiphonics is.

PH · Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2002 5:46 pm Post subject:

Has anyone heard Amir El Saffar? I really believe he is the next SUPER heavy jazz trumpet player (maybe the best since Woody & Freddie).

Larry Smithee · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 4399

PH · Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2002 7:17 pm Post subject:

I don't think Amir has any recordings out yet. It's only a matter of time. He won the ITG Student Improv competition last summer and then followed that by winning the Caruso Competition.

dales · Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2002 7:54 pm Post subject:

I like Stanko, too. Around 1986 I traded rock LPs to a guy in Czechoslavakia for jazz records from Eastern Europe. Of the several dozen records from Hungary, Czechoslavakia, Poland and the USSR I got that way, two of them were Stanko's, one from 1982, the other from 1984, both on Polish labels.

I also ended up with records by or featuring Czech trumpet soloists Laco Deczi and Michal Gera (as well as some players in Czech big bands, though they don't solo). Martin, have you heard of these guys? Are they still active?

The oddest trumpet record I got out of this was a duo recorded in the Soviet Union with Vyacheslav Gaivoronsky playing a rotary trumpet with a bass player. They did lengthy free improvs on Russian folk songs. Considering the genre, the geography and the instrumentation, this must be a serious candidate for most underappreciated jazz trumpet record of all time, so I feel compelled to mention it here.

I wouldn't mind doing this kind of trading again, although I suspect people in Eastern Europe may now have an easier time buying discs from the west than they did then. The guy I knew was listening to John Peel's rock show on the BBC, but had great difficulty getting records he wanted.

Martin · Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2002 6:00 am Post subject:

dales,

no, I never heard of those guys. But judging from the sheer size of countries like Russia, the Ukraine, Poland etc. I imagine there have to be lots of musical treasures yet to be discovered in the West. The Russian conservatories in particular have a reputation for producing world-class trumpet players. Time will tell (hopefully)...
_________________
All the best

Martin
_____________________________________________________________________
"I have found that it is enough when a single note is beautifully played." - Arvo Pärt