Getting Compression..........FINALLY!

Dave Converse · Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 5:39 am Post subject:

OK, OK...........I've been missing a really key detail with tongue position. Want to emphasize this point in case someone else is misunderstanding this. If I'm the only one.............then I'll just laugh along with all the rest of you.

Don't know where I went off course with the tongue tip, but for months I've been trying to get compression, somehow, with the tip pushing down on the top of the bottom lip. Couldn't figure out why I could never get the contact point on the top teeth anywhere near the 1" back on the tongue; my horn felt too big; my usable range was only with fresh chops and I was using way too much mpc. pressure.

Although it's clearly mentioned in Secret #1 and #3, somehow, I'd forgotten the little "detail" about contacting the bottom lip with the TOP of the tongue tip This was pointed out to me about a week ago by the famous "general," and comfirmed by Kyle and Ken in the "stuck on #3" post. Lemme tell ya..................makes all the difference in the world!

"Popping" the attacks is a bit of a struggle, but it's getting better as I'm learning to relax the tongue and the lips. And my horn, that used to feel like a trombone,,,,,,,,,,,, is actually getting a bit "stuffy" now. I love it. Once again this forum proves invaluable to those of us who live too far away to get personal instruction from "the man." Thanks, guys. Dave

oj · Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 6:07 am Post subject:

Good to hear Dave,

Have you taken phone lessons from Jerry?

If not, I suggest you take one. If you read my recent post here, "Online with Jerry", you will see that he gave me a free lesson showing me how to do the spit-buzz. Since that (5 days ago) - I have made a jump up to another level in all my playing. Almost like "magic". Just by doing the spit-buzz, like first Bert showed me via a CD he sent me, and then getting a correction and refinement from Jerry, I have gained strength every day now. When I pick up one of my horns I'm supprised - better sound, easier to play. The "pop" in my attacks are much better.

I have started doing the Arban single tongue etudes (the ones that Mendez recorded). I do them very "spit-buzz like" and slow first - just a few bars here and there, also checking with a few spit-buzz. Then as a "bonus" I end with doing one or two etudes more musically and in the tempo of Mendez.

Good luck in your continuation Dave,

Ole

Dave Converse · Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 8:49 am Post subject:

Thanks for the encouragement, Ole. Yes, I've had several phone lessons with Jerry. And, I've been spit-buzzing for 2 years. But all the spit-buzzing in the world won't do much good unless the tongue is in the proper position. Even though I started the set-up with the top teeth 1" back on the tongue, it never helped. I had to force the tongue to stay up to the teeth after the attack. Now, it works like magic. I think Kyle indicates the whole embouchure is formed around that tongue/teeth beginning step................Now, I clearly see why. Ah-Ha..........Ah-Ha..........Ah-Ha...................................

goldenhornplayer · Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 2:17 pm Post subject:

Way to go Dave! I'm glad our comments were helpful to you. Maybe it's not expresed clearly enough, but tongue SHAPE is of the utmost concern. We've talked a lot about tongue position but maybe not enough about tongue shape. Jerome describes tongue shape when he talks about beveling the tongue. The ultimate objective is to get the top of the curved or beveled tongue to contact the bottom, inside part of the top lip. Lately, Jerry has gotten me to push upward on the mouthpiece slightly, after I set the MP on the lips, to further expose the soft, inner tissue of the top lip. Of course, feeling the cutting edge of the top teeth on top of the tongue, about an inch back from the tip, is the other important point you mentioned. Another point you made, that I liked, was to keep the tongue as relaxed as possible. I know for me at least, that earlier when I tensed the tongue it tended to straighten and we all know that won't work. When the tongue loses it's bevel, it no longer can properly reach the inside of the top lip and compression is lost. That's why I believe Jerry's tip to me of thinking mainly about the tongue pressing against the top teeth was so helpful. If you keep the tongue tip area on the bottom lip and press, with the top of the tongue, upward against the top teeth some really good things start to happen. The hard part is training yourself to do that even when you see a double G coming. I hope your progress continues.