Wynton Marsalis

[Quadruple C]

[ This Message was edited by: Quadruple C on 2003-10-05 18:38 ]

[brenter]

While I do have respect and admiration for Wynton as a player, educator, and ambassador of jazz, I'm not sure I would say he's the "best trumpeter ever." Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue" is over forty years old, and they still talk about it. I can't think of any Wynton albums that will be held in such esteem forty years from now. Winning Grammy's doesn't impress me anymore, either. The music they honor and celebrate gets more lame by the year.

I can't help but to wonder what Wynton's playing would be like if he wasn't so influenced by Stanley Crouch. There is a book called, "Cat's of any Color" written by Gene Lees. The chapter he has on Wynton and Stanley and their perspectives on jazz is interesting, to say the least.

[ This Message was edited by: brenter on 2002-01-17 01:07 ]

[ This Message was edited by: Brenter on 2002-01-17 11:53 ]

[trickg]

I think that Wynton is phenomenal musician although I tend to think of him more in a classical sense than as a Jazz musician. The reason for this? Those are the albums of his that I own. When I listen to "Jazz" I pretty much stick to big band with wailing trumpets like Kenton, Maynard and the Tonight Show Band.

I think that some of Wynton's classical recordings, for example "Baroque Music For Trumpet and Orchestra" are the definitive recordings of those works. As I HS kid, I used to listen to Wynton's classical recordings a lot and in some ways, trying to match (yeah right!) what he was doing both technically and stylistically shaped me as a young musician. I've always believed that in order to play it, you have to listen to it. Maybe not the same recording, but recordings of the same style.
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[cgooding]

Wynton is without a doubt my favorite player. He is a truly remarkable musician.
How many other musicians, especially trumpet players, can boast multiple Grammy's and a Pulitzer?????
As far as his being "non-progressive", give a listen to "In This House, On This Morning", "Blood On the Fields", "The Marciac Suite" and "Big Train" (keeping in mind that he not only plays on but composed these pieces) and see if you don't change your mind. Yes, he has a lot of traditional jazz recordings out there. But that's the beauty of Wynton. He sounds equally at home playing anything, and you could swear that he was trained to play that type of music alone.
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[rch-tech]

I once read somewhere, (back in high school) that he was quoted as saying "white people can't play jazz" or maybe it was "shouldn't play jazz" can't remember for sure.
I was crushed, has anyone else ever heard this?
I love his playing, he's very good, but I've never been able to get that out of my mind.

I do find it harder to listen to his jazz over his classical just because some of his tunes seem to last forever and sound the same after 10 minutes...I get tired...
I love his Carnival de Venice recording though.

[Quadruple C]

[ This Message was edited by: Quadruple C on 2003-10-05 18:40 ]

[Ronnie]

I honestly believe that any kind of music is any mans game, be it jazz, classical, pop, whatever.

However, I think that Wynton was dealing with certain kind of frustration that only people of color can truly understand and have been dealing with for a long time. Artist's like Wynton, Terence, Roy, and many othere African American horn players come directly out of the tradidtion on Miles, Louis, Clifford, Blue and so many others.

I hate to say it, but while jazz is the only true "american" music it also comes so deeply out of the black experience in america. The roots of jazz are nested in slavery - african beats, improvisation of lyric and tone, a semi tonal approach to music etc.

It was later that jazz became popularized and codified. My teacher once said that popular jazz of the 20's and 30's was jewish standards with african beats (he's a white guy). Think Cole Porter.

That's not to say that a white guy can't play jazz, but there is a historical connection there that is hard to appreciate outside of the race.

When I think of "true" jazz that is both compositionally beautiful and speaks to the black experience in america, Mingus comes to mind, Ellington comes to mind, Eric Dolphy comes to mind, Art Blakey comes to mind.

The more I think about it, the more I decide that jazz is a black music, nested in the blues, nested in slave songs etc.

I don't think that many musicians pay the politics of jazz much mind and they should.

I hope that this sits well with all of you. I'm not trying to offend or start an argument. But jazz as a form of black music is a nonwaivering reality.

Ronnie



[ This Message was edited by: Ronnie on 2002-01-22 14:44 ]

[Ronnie]

QC,

I agree. Now when are you going to come down to the Bay Area so that I can get that lesson?

Ronnie

[mistrad37]

I feel that Wynton is both a fantastic jazz and classical player. However, I feel that he is somewhat lacking on the innovation. He just seems to play the same thing over again. He hasn't created an album that has just blown everyone away with innovation, which can speak more than playing ability. Take a look at bitches brew. Some of the playing was pretty shacky, however, the innovation of the piece is what made it famous.

About the roots of Jazz:

I agree %100 that Jazz is African American music. I grew up in a section of Indianapolis that was racially diverse. Then I moved to a white suburb. Once when that happened I realized that I missed the racial interaction deeply. Since I have been in college I have been taking African American history classes, along with extensive research on my own part. I have found that after all of my studying about African Amercan history and culture that my Jazz playing has really prospered. It is truly remarkable when you play a type of music and actually understand the basis on where it comes from. It is truly an inspirational experience. For the record, I am a white man. However, I believe that distinguishing people with race creates a wall right away.

Alright, I am done with my ranting! :smile:

[ This Message was edited by: mistrad37 on 2002-01-23 11:50 ]

[Emb_Enh]

My wife really likes the ''Hothouse Flowers'' album....I'm sure she only plays it to make me fed up!! : )

Roddy o-iii<O
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[jdscreamer]

I met Wynton when he came to Knoxville a few months back. We left, but then someone said he was signing autographs, so I went back in. He seemed kind of quiet to me, and very dignified. I shook hands with him and got a picture with, and he asked if I played trumpet, and I told him I did. When the small crowd started pressing in he said he needed to give the little trumpet player some respect. He was very kind.
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[Xenoman]

Early in this post someone asked what year Wynton won a grammy for jazz and classical. He actually did it twice.

1983 - Think of One (Jazz) & Concerto for Trumpet and Orchestra in E-Flat Major (Classical)

1984 - Hot House Flowers (Jazz) & Baroque Music for Trumpet (classical)