Gold vs. Lacquer

dave_pepin · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 5:47 pm Post subject:

I am planning on buying a new Bach Strad, and am considering having the factory gold plate it. My question is, what kind of difference with the gold make compared to a lacquer or silver finish? Does anyone have a gold plated bach? What do you think of it? Thanks.

Oxfordite · Veteran Member Joined: 16 Nov 2001 Posts: 180

I don't have a gold-plated Bach but I do have a gold-plated Getzen. The gold-plate will actually help the tone of the horn as long as all the lacquer is removed. The lacquer deadens the brass preventing good resonance, where as gold- or silver-plate works with it in order to brighten the sound. That does not mean that it will have a "bright" sound, only that it will have more "umph" as they say. As I posted once before, Reynold Schilke did extensive research on the effects of various finishes on the tonal qualities of trumpets. Check it out for yourself (http://www.schilkemusic.com/ic-2.html).

_PhilPicc · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 6:20 pm Post subject:

I can't help you on the gold vs lacquer but I do have a gold plated Bach Strad. It was silver and I decided I wanted it gold to match my cornet.

As far as the sound difference, I really did not notice any change. I like the looks and the fact that it is pretty easy to care for.

Bach will send it to Andersons so the plating will be pristeen.

Good luck and let us know what happened,
Phil
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Philip Satterthwaite

We cannot expect you to be with us all the time, but perhaps you could be good enough to keep in touch now and again."
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Johann24 · Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2003 6:39 pm Post subject:

At the Bob Reeves shop I played KO's gold VR and really didn't notice much difference in sound. However, the lower notes seemed to be more secure and the horn seemed to more readily assume a mellow sound.
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University of Rochester, Class of 2010

pushyred · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 4:53 am Post subject:

The best thing about my satin gold lawler is that it doesn't show any finger prints! I do think it darkens the sound a little but not that much.

4Him · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 5:24 am Post subject:

I've got a gold plated Bach-- plated at Anderson. They did a fine job. It looks nice, perhaps brightened the tone up a bit, but I did it primarily because the acid from my hands does a number on silver. I had mine done about 8 months ago and it still looks factory new (a 25 year old horn--- I had the rest of the refurb work done at Melke).

Ken

klorenz · Regular Member Joined: 02 May 2003 Posts: 57

Personally, I would not order it factory direct from Bach. Because of Bach's inconsistencies nowadays, you are probably better off purchasing a like new (used) Bach that plays well and have the laquer or silver stripped and send it to andersons yourself to have it gold plated. Chances are this way you will get your horn faster and possibly slightly cheaper. I would imagine that Bach charges extra for the horn being changed hands so many times, though im not positive about this. But make sure you get a horn that you really like first because you wont want to spend so much money gold plating a Bach that may have problems or flaws. Good luck with your purchase, I hope it goes very smoothly!

dave_pepin · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 6:47 am Post subject:

How about anyone with a lacquered Bach? Does the lacquer darken the sound a lot, perhaps more than a gold plate does? Thanks

Oxfordite · Veteran Member Joined: 16 Nov 2001 Posts: 180

IMHO lacquer doesn't darker than tone, it deadens it, and I really mean deadens it. I kill the tonal quality all together. You may not notice this until you play a plated instrument, and even then you might not notice for a while. But once you have grown accustomed to playing a plated trumpet, then try and play a lacquered one. You will be amazed how much less resonant they are.

_dcstep · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 11:01 am Post subject:

oneeyedhobbit · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 11:31 am Post subject:

Also with all due respect, I agree with the above post. In Mr. Schilke's days when lacquer was applied very thickly it probably did deaden the sound, but nowadays it is of much higher quality, and in all of my testing, I have not noticed a "deadened" sound. Perhaps a bit darker, not deader (if thats a word). Silver plate seems to brighten the horn just a tad, and Gold seems to darken it again, although not quite as dark as lacquer-but man does it look good!

dave_pepin · Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2003 3:33 pm Post subject:

I guess my question is then... and I know that a lot of you are going to say "whatever you like" but I am looking for opinions, so.... Do you guys personally think that a lacquer horn is a better idea than gold? You seem to agree for the most part that lacquer deadens the tone a little, but not as much as when Schilke did is study, and that buying a horn special from selmer would be bad.

Then, what you are saying is that I should --if at all possible-- try several lacquer bachs rather than order one new gold bach?

Oxfordite · Veteran Member Joined: 16 Nov 2001 Posts: 180

Definitely try several. Bach being so inconsistent these days it isn't wise to order direct. No telling what you would get. As far as the plating issue, if modern lacquer has changed so much all the better. Even if that is the state of things gold-plated horns are gorgeous. I would still prefer them over any other for finish both for looks and for value. Which leads me to another question.

What exactly is polished brass? Is it brass without lacquer only buffed to a lusterous shine? How does it take oils from the hands? Also how does the oil effect raw brass? I have a gold trumpet and nothing (aside from poor handling) seem to effect the plating.

_Don Herman · Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2003 5:25 am Post subject:

Actually, gold can be (and usually is) applied over silver. The lacquer would have to be stripped first, and silver is then usually applied to provide a harder and more protective coating before gold plating. So, perhaps you should find a silver horn you like, and have it gold plated instead...

IMO, gold plating affects the sound much less than many other factors (bell, leadpipe, mpc, PLAYER!) I happen to like the way it looks, and resists corrosion.

FWIW - Don
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Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

redface · Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2003 6:02 am Post subject:

I have just replaced my lacquered strad with a goldplate schilke B1L. While the horns are hugely different, the gold one does seem to have a more vibrant sound. I did compare it while horn shopping with a silver plate schilke and it sounded much better and was more responsive. I also tried the new Conn V1 in lacquer and in silver, the silver one was far better, the lacquer one was terrible and the silver one was great.

Gold plate just looks so cool.

Pedro · Heavyweight Member Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 539

I will chime in on points made by both DCSteps and Ken. I have a "Z" and it brightens up quite well and also allows me a level of darkness when I want. Something I haven't experienced on other laquer horns. Although admittedly, my exposure has probably been few and far between. However, the same is true for durability in that high acid content will wear the laquer finish much faster than silver or gold. Until I get that "new baby" I'm yet dreaming of ( nope...no name droppin' today), I use the old clear nail polish trick which stops the wear.

Oxfordite · Veteran Member Joined: 16 Nov 2001 Posts: 180

I just thought it might be of interest to eveyone else on here. http://www.acoustics.org/press/133rd/2amu4.html It's just a page I found with information on trumpets and such. They did an experiment (1997) on the effect lacquer & plating have on an instruments tonal quality. As you can see they also did one of bell material. Pretty interesting actually. According to them little difference can be found in the lower range but once you get higher (& louder) you will begin to see a difference. Anyhow, I thought this might be informative.

elgatoerudito · Regular Member Joined: 04 Sep 2003 Posts: 24

I have a gold-plated yamaha that I bought used from a pro and one of the cool things about it is how the places where the fingers have the most contact and erode the finish are like shiny silver fingerprints instead of ugly dull brass fingerprints like with a lacquer finish.
a cool thing also is to put a gold plated horn next to a lacquer horn and look at them at the same time. to say that the difference is night and day wouldn't do it justice