Help! Tips for checking out a used horn tonight??

[chetbfan]

I am going to look at what is supposed to be a "mint" 69 King Silver Flair tonight at 6:00PM.
Any last minute advice on a good proper going over of a used horn.

Chetbfan

[fuzzyjon79]

I would look for dents/dings very carefully and look for any signs of where the horn might have been repaired. If the horn is pretty and it plays well, then it should be a good buy. How it plays will be more important than it looks, but that's just my 2 cents.
_________________
J. Fowler
"It takes a big ole' sack of flour, to make a big ole' pan of biscuits!"

[chetbfan]

Are there worse spots than others for small dents and dings or are all condidered bad?

Chetbfan

[Nichols902]

One big place for dents (especially if it's ever been used in a marching band) is on the 180 degree pare of the bell when it wraps around to the first valve. I remember pretty much everyone in highschool had dents there. Double check no dents or dings on the valves because that could give you a sticking problem later on. The ONLY dings on my Bb are on the bell before it flares. A couple guys mouthpieces have put a slight mark in it.


_________________
Mt.Vernon Stradivarius C serial #23xxx
Silver/Gold Stradivarius Bb #486xxx

[ This Message was edited by: Nichols902 on 2003-09-03 13:04 ]

[fuzzyjon79]

Yes, check the valves!!!! Make sure they work decently! Check ALL the slides to see if they move freely.
_________________
J. Fowler
"It takes a big ole' sack of flour, to make a big ole' pan of biscuits!"

[_PhilPicc]

Check for pitting in the leadpipe. If there is it is a sign on red rot. Of course leads are easily replaced. How it plays for you is the most important element.

Good luck,
Phil
_________________
Philip Satterthwaite

We cannot expect you to be with us all the time, but perhaps you could be good enough to keep in touch now and again."
- Sir Thomas Beecham to a musician during a rehearsal

[thelurker]

take a tuner..also check it for air leaks and red rot on the leadpipe...getting anew leadpipe for such an old horn can be a pain

[ This Message was edited by: thelurker on 2003-09-03 13:50 ]

[trickg]

Definitely pull the tuning slide and give the leadpipe a look. Just hope that it's clean and isn't chock full of dirt and grime, otherwise it's going to be hard to tell if it has pitting or other serious corrosion going on.

Something else that I would check for is compression by removing the first and third slides, popping a finger or thumb over one or the other holes and blowing to see if or how badly air is leaking from around the valves.

Pull the valves and look at them. Check for wear spots, corrosion, etc. A horn that has been poorly maintained is going to have corrosion spots on the valves.

All of these things are fixable, but repairs do cost $$$. Then you have the thankless task of trying to decide whether or not it is worth your while to fork out the cash to put it back into pristine shape.

Good luck tonight.
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP

[drunkiq]

got this from the trumpet gearhead - but added a bunch of stuff i think he did not explained or missed:

1) Check for dents, dings and finish problems under good light, a flash light can be used to see weird reflections to see where repairs may have been made.

2) Check out the valves for the feel. Oil if necessary. Rock the valves back and forth to see if there is excess looseness. Make sure the stems and valve buttons are screwed in tightly.

3) Check the valve caps, water keys, and slides to see if they are movable and functional.

4) Check for valve leakage by removing a slide crook, placing a finger over the outlet port, and blowing on the leadpipe. (CAREFUL - my main tube silde was so well gressed it flew off!) To test the entire horn for leaks, you can put a soft rubber ball (like a racquet ball) into the bell and blow on the leadpipe. This also helps to check to make sure the water key corks are sealing. It is not very illuminating to test a horn with a leaky water key. -dont forget to press down the valves one at a time when thesting this way too

5) Pull out the second valve slide (push the valve down first) and look in the ports. When the valve is pushed down, all you should be able to see is the inside of the valve bore. If you can see any of the exterior of the valve itself, the valve is way out of alignment and the horn will not play as well as it should if the valves are aligned. Kinda like test driving a car when one of the cylinders isn't hitting. You may be able to check the first valve with a good flashlight....

6) Check the seal on the valves buy pulling out each valve slide half way, then depressing the valve. If the seal is satisfactory, there will be a light "thunk" made as the vacuum is opened by the valve. (#3 is better for this method)

7) Check the condition of the leadpipe by removing the tuning crook and looking through the pipe for dirt or corrosion or red rot. - usea a flash light....

Playing the horn.

1) Play a few long tones in the middle register. Bend pitches until the center is found and the horn resonates as much as possible. Play a few long tones very softly.

2) Play a few long leisurely scales at mp over the range of the instrument to check the uniformity of the sound throughout the horn's full range. Slur some and tongue some to see how easy it is to get the horn to speak. Play a couple as soft and as loud as you can.

3) Check intonation. Play several octave intervals in the mid range. Often the defects in intonation in the higher range is more a result of the horn/mouthpiece match, than it is of the horn itself. Schilke recommends playing the B major scale, a scale notoriously out of tune on many horns. If you've brought a tuner and are in a quiet location, playing the normal range of the instrument on the tuner will reveal the horn's individual tendencies and weaknesses.

4) Play some lip slurs and shakes to determine the flexibility and response.

5) Play a few scales or arpeggios to try the high register to see how the horn responds and the resistance encountered.

6) Play the music that you've brought to see how the horn performs on music that you are familiar with.

7) Listen to what your knowledgeable friends say about the sound, let them help you by instructing you what to play again or to adjust. Alternate playing your old horn with the one you are trying out, giving the friends time to respond. Have the friends move around the hall, listening both beside you (as a player in your section might) and at the back of the hall.

bring a recorder and your own horn - using the same mouthpice play the same pasagge a couple of time on one and record it.. play the same pasage a couple of time on the one you are testing and then record it... play back both recordings... if the new horn sounds worst then dont' waste your cash....

let us know what happens,

-marc

[Tootsall]

To add to what Marc said...depending upon the horn design and slide layout, you may be able to pull the 1st and 3rd slides and look down them (a little, focussing flashlight helps) and perform the "valve alignment check" there also. Note, however, that this only works for the valve in the "DOWN" position.