PEDALS

[_bugleboy]

There are a lot of different ideas about pedals,

1. how to do them,
2. whether they help or hinder,
3. fingerings.
3. should they sound musical.

Ask yourself this question. Will pedals ever be used in a musical situation? I use a pedal E on one song in my repertoire, and that pedal is more of a passing tone. Although I've heard some guys that can sound pretty good down there, I think it is generally safe to assume that pedal notes are totally unnecessary in music. So the question becomes, "Why practice them?"

Pedal tones extend the embouchure into a region that is beyond the embouchure employed in the normal register. In the pedal register notes don't respond if pressure is applied while trying to execute them. So what you have is a bunch of notes (more than 2 octaves worth) that must be played without pressure. In other words, your embouchure must learn to produce notes without the crutch or manipulation of the left arm (pressure).

If the foregoing is accepted as reasonable then the issues become a little clearer.

FINGERINGS

I don't think it matters what fingering you use. Use whatever is easiest to get the notes. Keep all three valves down beyond low F# until you get to the pedal G. At this point play the pedal G as open. It usually responds well as a flapping, blatting sound. If all three valves are depressed from the low F# downwards, guess what? You will have to use your lips (muscles in the embouchure) to make the notes (since pressure won't work). If you start a weight program you don't put 200 pounds on the bar for your first bench press. You start easy. Same with pedals. It is harder for the lips to play pedals using normal fingerings. Save the normal fingerings for later, after you have gotten a taste of them with all valves depressed.

MUSICALITY

Get the notes! These notes aren't going to be used in your playing so don't worry about making them sound great. Just get them. Even if you don't get them to respond well, your lips are getting great exercise just TRYING to play them. Eventually they will become more controlled and might even start to sound half way decent. But that is not the primary goal. The main goal is to WORK YOUR LIPS! Getting fussy and picky with pedal notes won't diminish their effectiveness, but it is unnecessary and just causes needless anxiety in the student. Probably more of an ego trip for music conscious teachers than anything else.

GET THE MOST OUT OF PEDALS

The next step is the most important part of practicing pedals. Play a fast chromatic scale covering the full extent of your range from low C to your highest note and back down. This should be done immediately after completing the pedal exercise to reestablish the embouchure and let the knowledge that the lips have just gained (about playing without pressure) be incorporated into the normal register. After the chromatic scale it is a good idea at this time to play! Play etudes, or scales or anything. Just play! Let the lips learn how to use the exercising you just gave them (in the pedal range) with the normal notes. Let the lips learn to play without pressure automatically from the pedal training. DO NOT intentionally remove pressure when you play. Use all the pressure you want! Over time the pedal exercises will teach the lips to play without pressure and that knowledge will work its way into your playing, without you doing a thing to make it happen. Over time, it might FEEL as though the pressure is the same as always, but you will start to notice that your range and endurance are getting better. You can't judge pressure by how it feels. You must use as much pressure as is necessary to make the notes. Don't worry about it! You will also notice that your lips are responding more freely than before and consequently your tone will sound clearer and be easier to control. These are some of the things the pedals will do for your embouchure.

The pedals are a tool: a powerful teaching device to help the student learn to play effortlessly. They are not an end in them self, but a means to an end. Many players find great success without ever playing a pedal. If you are not one of those naturally gifted players, for you, the playing field can be leveled by practicing pedals. So just play normal, use all the pressure you want and let the pedals do their job. They will serve you well.

Regards,

Charles Raymond


_________________
Charles Raymond





[ This Message was edited by: bugleboy on 2002-09-15 09:34 ]

[big brian]

Hey there.

I thought that was a great post. I often do pedals, and your post has given me a new direction to take with them. Thanks again!

Best wishes,

Brian

[hpkhilma]

Your post has inspired me to tackle pedal tones again. It was reassuring to hear that it is normal for the 123 valve combination to be easier on pedals than the actual fingerings. I always thought that I was just doing it wrong. Thanks for the pointers!

Kevin

[_bugleboy]

Kevin,

Don't make practicing pedals become a difficult or imposing chore, as in,

Your post has inspired me to tackle pedal tones again.

Doing pedals should be the easiest, most anxiety free exercise that you do. Don't worry about attack, tone quality, intonation (do the best you can in this regard) or anything else musical. As the old NIKE logo used to say,

"JUST DO IT."

CR

[screamertrumpet]

Bugleboy,
Awesome post.
About the anxiety thing: you're right. Even though some other muscians will give you the 'evil eye' when you play below F#, have fun with them. Every once in a while when I'm playing lead and my chops get tired, I have fifth take over my part and go play the bass trombone part (Yep, I can read Bass Clef in C).
Trevor

[cp]

Right on!

[NCTrumpet]

Is it normal for the fundamental (8va below low C) to be UNBELIEVABLY difficult? All other tones seem to be a breeze to play but that one. I've wondered if it was a quirk of my particular horn.

John C.

[_bugleboy]

Don't take any crap from the pedal C. Play it with all three valves down until its behavior improves. Then try it open.

[rgeba]

John C.,
I also find pedal C to be the only real bear in the pedal family.

Curiously, I have found it significantly easier (although not quite a breeze) on other horn/mouthpiece combos I have tried. So equipment must have some effect.

Bob

[rgeba]

Oh, I almost forgot. I have had some success with Bugleboy's suggestion of sneaking down on the pedal C with all valves down as well sneaking up on it from a pedal B played open. You can just very gradually increase the air velocity until the pitch rises to the C.


Bob

[Lee Adams]

Hi

While reading over some publications on physics of horn and mouthpiece design. And a few other places over the years.
I do remember a number of times that mention was made(leaning in the direction) that an open pedal C on Bb trumpet is a non sloted note. Something about due to the tubing length of a Bb trumpet is responsible for making playing playing an open pedal C so difficult. So most people use all three valves for the pedal C.
Anyone have more data about this issue?

As always AAtozhvac@cs.com 706-347-2429

[Johnathan Barnett]

There are two notes that I have problems with, one is pedal C, and the other is A over high C. Since the thread is about pedals I guess there is no need to discuss the A. I finally decided just to play the pedal C with all 3 valves. Does anyone ever go below pedal C? I mean does anyone actually play a note in some exercise below pedal C?
_________________
Johnathan Barnett
Yamaha YTR-736
Yamaha Japan 12, 13A4a
--------------
"Don't look down on anyone unless you are helping them up." --- Jesse Owens

[_bugleboy]

John,

Believe it or not, some players claim they can produce notes down to a quadruple pedal C. I don't find too much value below the double pedal F#, and have never got anything below the triple pedal C. But there are some very playable exercises with merit down to the double F#.

If we were to discuss the A over high C (I would call it an A4) it would probably be suitable for it to have a thread all of its own. You're right about that note though; it is very misbehaved. Why don't you start that thread? My guess is it will be a hot one!

Regards,

CR



[ This Message was edited by: bugleboy on 2002-09-15 09:37 ]

[Nicholas Dyson]

Excellent Post!!!!!

I have nothing to add, gotta go shed! Just wanted to say thanks for the info!
_________________
Nicholas Dyson
Ottawa, Canada

[pedaltonekid]

The pedal C is very difficult, but once you have the hang of it, it can be played very easily. Use lots of air, and if you have a C trumpet (or other higher pitched key) it is a little easier than on the Bb. Once you have it mastered on the C, go to the Bb.
_________________
Best Regards, Play Well!!

[BrassClass]

bugleboy,

You reccommended using the fingers in your post? What actually are the fingerings? Are they the same as from middle C down to low C?

Thanks.
P.S. - I'm working out of the Caruso Musical Calisthenics For Brass" bookand am getting good results.

[_bugleboy]

Ultimately, you can work the lips the most by using normal fingerings for the pedals, normal meaning the fingerings from first space F (for the first pedal, the pedal F) down to low Ab ( for the pedal Ab). From that point I like using an open fingering for the pedal G and then continue with the normal fingerings (as they would occur) from second line G on down.

It is always acceptable to
use 1,2 and 3 for any pedal. As your embouchure's sensitivity to the pedals improves and you choose to do so, you can employ the normal fingerings as described above. Just remember there's no rush. Working the lips and making them get something (without using pressure) is what the pedals are all about, IMO (read that, from a Caruso student's perspective).





[ This Message was edited by: bugleboy on 2002-01-17 10:10 ]

[Emb_Enh]

Clyde Hunt told me that it is NOT a measure of chop success whether you can play pedal C open fingers or 123.

He said it's more likely to be an indication of the efficiency of your equipment (Tpt./mpc.) to play Ped C open.

Even though it says in his book that it's important to play Ped C open --direct from him he says that it matters not one jot!

Try ped C on flug!! --to get the correct feeling!

So go on all you 123'ers!

rgds. Roddy o-iii<O http://members.aol.com/RoddyTpt/

[gappingr]

[Don O]

Say, Bugleboy, my friend, isn't A above high C actually A3? A1 begins in the staff, then A2 one octave up and A3 next octave up. Is this not correct?